Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for 61, JTA's Israel [00:05] election podcast, where we break down [00:07] the fundamentals of Israel's 2026 [00:09] elections, the politics, the players, [00:12] and what's at stake as the country heads [00:13] to the polls. I'm Ami Eden, CEO and [00:16] executive editor of 70 Faces Media, the [00:18] organization behind the Jewish [00:20] Telegraphic Agency. [00:21] >> And I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:25] correspondent. Today marks 7 days until [00:28] the Israelis cast their votes. [00:30] >> One note before we begin. Every Friday, [00:33] we'll be answering questions from you, [00:34] our listeners. [00:36] So, if something sparks your curiosity, [00:37] or there's an aspect of Israeli politics [00:39] you'd like us to explain, send us your [00:41] questions to waitingfor61@jta.org. [00:46] Okay, let's get into it. [00:48] Ruth, we've been getting some messages [00:50] from readers here and listeners who want [00:53] to understand more about Ra'am, the [00:57] traditional Islamic party, Arab party, [01:01] um, headed by Mansour Abbas, that made [01:02] it into the last government, first Arab [01:06] party to be a part of a governing [01:08] coalition. Tell us more about that and [01:10] and and how it ties into, I guess, some [01:12] of your, [01:13] uh, reporting on the campaign trail. [01:16] >> Yeah. So, um, you know, Ra'am is a very [01:19] interesting party. There's actually two [01:21] Arab, uh, parties, or two Arab lists, [01:24] let's say, because both of them are kind [01:25] of an amalgamation of of a few smaller [01:27] groups, but Ra'am itself is very [01:29] interesting. Um, they're actually called [01:32] the United Arab List, and, um, they are [01:35] an Arab-Israeli party with Islamist [01:37] roots. And most of the their supporters [01:41] come from the southern part of Israel. [01:43] They're mainly from the Bedouin [01:44] communities that live in the Negev [01:46] desert. Ra'am really has its roots in [01:48] the Islamic movement, um, which is kind [01:51] of the same umbrella movement that, you [01:54] know, extremist groups like Hamas, uh, [01:56] fall under. And, um, [01:59] basically in the last few years since [02:02] Mansour Abbas who is the head of the [02:04] party took over, he succeeded in [02:07] separating Ra'am as a political movement [02:11] from the ideological movement of [02:13] of the Islamic movement. So he has kind [02:17] of taken this very pragmatic approach [02:19] which is what kind of sets him apart [02:21] from the other Arab parties. He doesn't [02:23] want to talk about nationalism. He does [02:25] identify as an Israeli Palestinian. Many [02:29] most of the Arabs in Israel have [02:31] Palestinian roots or they identify with [02:34] the Palestinians or the Palestinian [02:36] ethnically, however you want to call it. [02:38] But they live inside Israel's 1967 [02:41] borders and therefore they're Israeli [02:43] citizens and they can vote in the [02:44] election. And Mansour Abbas, unlike [02:47] other leaders of Arab parties, has [02:49] decided to take a pragmatic approach. He [02:52] is really only interested in trying to [02:55] improve conditions for Arab Israelis, [02:59] which it could be education, it's [03:03] having housing rights, building in their [03:05] communities and especially the crime [03:07] rate which is very very high in the Arab [03:10] sector in Israel. [03:12] There's organized gangs and the murder [03:14] rate is very very high and he has taken [03:17] it upon himself to deal with these [03:19] issues. [03:20] >> Just to clarify, when you talk about the [03:22] murder rate in the Israeli Arab [03:24] community, [03:26] we're talking about Arabs killing other [03:28] Arabs. This isn't a matter of Jewish [03:30] extremists killing Arabs. [03:32] >> Right. It's a it's a criminal issue. I [03:35] mean it's all it's not to do with a [03:36] nationalistic [03:38] issues and it's mostly I mean there is [03:41] organized crime in the Jewish Israeli [03:43] community too, but in the Arab Israeli [03:46] community, Arabs the Arab population in [03:48] Israel makes up around 20% of the [03:51] population within their society, within [03:53] their community, they have organized [03:55] gangs and the murder rate is very, very [03:57] high. And you know, I I can't remember [03:59] the figure off the top of my head. It's [04:01] something like 250 people killed uh just [04:04] like up to now, October in 2026, [04:08] which is very high for Israel. Usually [04:11] never had to grapple with this kind of [04:13] uh crime in the past. And the Israeli [04:16] police really struggle, have really [04:18] struggled to kind of reign in uh crime [04:21] and track it down. There's a lot of [04:23] mistrust or distrust between the Arab [04:25] community and the Israeli police. So, [04:27] there's some really big challenges into [04:30] dealing with it. And and Mansour Abbas, [04:32] as the head of Ra'am, has said, "You [04:34] know, let's put aside the nationalistic [04:36] issues. We need to deal with our [04:38] community issues. We need to deal with [04:40] the crime, with education, with housing [04:44] issues, with poverty." There's a lot of [04:46] poverty in the Arab community. And he [04:49] has managed, unlike other Arab party [04:51] leaders before him, to say, "You know, [04:54] for for reasons that will be best for my [04:56] community, I am willing and I am ready [04:58] to join a Zionist government." Even [05:00] though he doesn't count himself as a [05:02] Zionist, he is willing to put that aside [05:05] and for the good of his people. And that [05:07] has really given him a boost and made [05:09] him stand out as a as a leader because, [05:12] you know, it's not such a popular move, [05:14] not from the side of Israeli Jews and [05:16] not from the side of his own community. [05:19] >> So, I just want to frame this in an [05:21] American context cuz I think it it would [05:23] be it's probably going to be really [05:24] surprising for a lot of people here to [05:26] hear. You basically have the leader of [05:29] this traditionalist Arab party [05:32] who has one of their main demands is [05:34] more Israeli policing in their [05:38] community. In America, you have on the [05:40] left, in general, it's sort of, you [05:42] know, the defund the police and [05:44] anti-police rhetoric, the idea that [05:46] minority communities are being [05:48] you know, hurt by over-policing. And and [05:52] tied into that, there's often an a [05:54] a desire to demonize Israel and Israeli [05:57] security and Israeli law enforcement. [06:00] So, the notion that you have [06:03] an Arab party who basically one of their [06:05] core demands is greater, more effective [06:08] Israeli policing in their communities, [06:11] it sounds [06:12] counterintuitive when you put on your [06:14] American glasses. But, let me then [06:16] connect it to with um on the ground [06:18] politics. You mentioned how the problem [06:21] has really been skyrocketing. [06:23] Now, we're over, you know, 200 250 [06:26] um killings in in the Arab community. [06:29] In that change government that Ra'am was [06:32] a part of, there was a sense [06:34] that he was making inroads in terms of [06:38] having the government adopt policies [06:41] that were helping to at least hold the [06:43] line or even bring down some of that [06:45] crime. And since that government fell [06:47] and this new government was brought in [06:49] place, you're you're you're seeing the [06:51] violent crime hit a whole new level. So, [06:54] can you talk about that and how that's [06:56] driving what's happening with um with [06:58] Ra'am this time around? [06:59] >> So, when [07:01] uh Naftali Bennett and uh Yair Lapid uh [07:04] were trying to establish a coalition in [07:06] 2021, Mansour Abbas came and said, "I [07:10] will support your government, but you [07:11] have to give us give the Arab community [07:14] in Israel funding to deal with violent [07:16] crime." They worked on setting up a [07:19] 5-year plan for tackling. I don't think [07:21] it's as simple of as like they want more [07:23] policemen on the streets. They just want [07:25] more effective policing. They want more, [07:28] you know, efforts to crack down on the [07:30] crime. And so, he was successful and [07:33] actually, I'm going to bring in another [07:35] character, which is uh Yoav Segalovich. [07:38] He's a Knesset member who is in or was [07:42] until recently in Yair Lapid's party and [07:44] during that change government from 2021 [07:47] to 2022, he was deputy minister of [07:51] national security or then it was called [07:53] internal security and he has a [07:55] background of being a police officer. He [07:57] was the head of the police [07:58] investigations unit and he kind of made [08:01] it his issue to deal with crime and you [08:04] see when you look at the numbers, you [08:06] see in that, you know, 1 and 1/2 year [08:08] period, you see, you know, the crime [08:10] rates in the Arab community going down. [08:12] When Netanyahu came back into power and [08:14] his government took over, they canceled [08:16] that plan and you see the numbers kind [08:19] of creeping up and then skyrocketing in [08:22] the last 2 years. I mentioned you Yov [08:25] Segolovich. He has done something [08:28] equally brave as Mansour Abbas in that [08:31] at the end of the Knesset session, [08:34] just like 2 months ago, he decided he [08:37] wanted to do even more to fight crime in [08:40] the Arab sector and he left Yesh Atid [08:44] and he reached out to Mansour Abbas and [08:46] he said, "I want to join your party. I [08:48] want to be on your list and I want to [08:49] fight crime in the Arab sector from [08:52] within your party. I want to join your [08:54] party." And you know, that was a very [08:57] bold move for an Israeli Jewish Zionist [09:02] politician to join an Islamist [09:05] Arab party and I mean, also for Mansour [09:08] Abbas who found a way to incorporate him [09:11] in the in his list. [09:13] From what I understand, it's very [09:15] technical. Yov Segolovich did not [09:18] officially join Ra'am as a member, but [09:20] he was placed on the list and he has [09:24] like freedom to vote on certain issues [09:26] cuz he's maintaining his identity as a [09:29] Jewish Israeli Zionist, but he will from [09:33] within Ra'am, [09:35] whether they are part of the government [09:36] or not, will work to combat crime in the [09:40] Arab sector. [09:42] >> As opposed to some other instances where [09:43] you have sort of Jewish anti-Zionist [09:46] hard leftist teaming up with [09:49] Arab politicians in a political context, [09:52] Sa'ar Lovitch is [09:54] I mean, he's not [09:56] a leftist anti-Zionist. I'm asking, not [09:58] saying like he's a centrist Zionist. [10:01] He's not a He hasn't abandoned that. [10:02] It's not as if he's waving the flag for [10:05] a a two-state solution in a big way or [10:08] anything like that. [10:09] >> No, exactly right. I mean, there is [10:11] another there's other as I mentioned [10:12] there's another Arab like faction or [10:14] Arab list. And within that list there's [10:16] a party called Hadash. And they are [10:20] officially a Jewish Arab party, but the [10:23] Jewish members of that party are very [10:25] very left-wing, [10:27] not Zionist, you know, self-declared [10:30] non-Zionist or post-Zionist or however [10:32] that you you want to refer to them. [10:34] Whereas Sa'ar Lovitch, and [10:37] you know, I was I spent an evening with [10:39] him. I went to one of [10:40] kind of a closed event where he spoke to [10:43] a group of kibbutzniks in northern [10:45] Israel. And he told his story, and he [10:47] said, you know, I haven't given up my [10:49] identity as a Jew, as a Zionist. You [10:52] know, I'm still come from this [10:54] background of being a Israeli police [10:56] officer, and I served in the IDF. And I [11:00] just want to make a difference in [11:02] society, and I realized that to make a [11:04] difference, there needs to be a way for [11:06] Jews and Arabs who live here in Israel [11:09] to work together. And that is is what he [11:11] said prompted him to leave Yesh Atid and [11:14] join Ra'am. [11:16] >> So, two quick questions before you wrap [11:18] up. You mentioned how [11:20] we talked about the change of [11:22] government. I just want to make it very [11:23] clear. [11:24] Itamar Ben-Gvir became the internal [11:27] security minister [11:29] in charge of of police. So, when we talk [11:31] about there was a policy in place, [11:34] five-year plan, they were making [11:36] progress. Ben-Gvir came in [11:38] as Am I right to say he abandoned the [11:41] plan or shift resources away? [11:44] >> Yep. Yep. So, that's exactly what [11:46] happened and there's been a lot of [11:47] criticism, um, you know, that Ben-Gvir [11:50] or the police under Ben-Gvir have not, [11:53] you know, tackled this problem. [11:54] >> So, when we talk about an area of [11:57] potential difference between [12:00] an anti-Netanyahu coalition and [12:02] Netanyahu coalition, [12:04] we don't know if Ra'am is going to end [12:06] up in the coalition. So, when we're [12:08] talking about potential differences [12:10] between the anti-Netanyahu block and the [12:14] Netanyahu block, it's possible [12:17] um, depending on how the anti-Netanyahu [12:20] coalition forms and if Ra'am makes it [12:22] in, [12:23] that Sa'ar and Lapid [12:25] could end up in [12:27] the position that Ben-Gvir has now, [12:30] overseeing the police. Correct? Like [12:31] that is Is that I feel like there's been [12:33] reporting that that's the that's in some [12:36] ways the goal of bringing Sa'ar and [12:38] Lapid into the Ra'am is that one of [12:40] their demands might be to make him the [12:43] minister in charge of the police so that [12:45] they know this issue is getting [12:47] top-level attention. [12:48] >> I mean, I think at this stage that's [12:50] sort of that's It feel I mean, you know, [12:52] anything can happen in Israeli politics, [12:53] so I don't rule anything out. But, uh, [12:56] it feels like it might be a little bit [12:58] of a dream. Um, because we didn't talk [13:01] about what happened, you know, Ra'am [13:03] joined the change government under Lapid [13:06] and Bennett and it was very fraught. The [13:09] There was a lot of fighting. You know, [13:11] the public didn't like the fact that [13:13] there was an Arab party, um, in, uh, in [13:16] the government and it ended up being one [13:18] of the factors that, uh, brought down, [13:21] ultimately brought down the, uh, Bennett [13:22] and Lapid government after only a year [13:24] and a half. Obviously, you know, 3 years [13:27] ago is October 7th happened, which has [13:29] increased the suspicion and tension [13:32] between Jews and Arabs in Israel as well [13:35] as Palestinians, [13:37] um you know, in the West Bank and Gaza. [13:39] So, you know, it's it's much more [13:41] complicated than that, and the change [13:44] block, the block led by Gadi Eisenkot, [13:48] most of the parties there have stated [13:50] emphatically they will not sit with an [13:53] Arab party. They do not want Ra'am in [13:55] the government. Um there actually is [13:57] only one party that has said they think [13:59] it's a good idea, and that's the [14:00] Democrats under Yair Golan. [14:03] Everyone else has said, "No, no, no, no, [14:04] no, no, no, we won't." And Netanyahu has [14:06] actually used the fact that Ra'am were [14:09] in the government [14:11] under Bennett and Lapid as a way to kind [14:13] of attack um those parties. And you [14:17] know, he has all these kind of illusion [14:19] illusional like posters or videos where [14:23] you have like a group of the change [14:24] politicians sitting there, and suddenly [14:26] in the next frame uh Mansour Abbas is [14:29] sitting there with them to as if to say, [14:31] "Yes, you're going to vote for them, but [14:32] they're really going to go with the Arab [14:34] party." And the Arab party [14:36] uh translates as the Palestinians, and [14:38] the Palestinians are the enemy. So, [14:40] really they're going to go with the [14:41] enemy even even though you're going to [14:43] vote for them, they're going to go with [14:44] the enemy. So, you know, it's a very [14:46] sensitive issue. [14:48] Um I don't rule anything out in Israeli [14:50] politics, and I will say that, you know, [14:52] the Arab parties and Mansour Abbas [14:54] Mansour Abbas's Ra'am party and the [14:56] other Arab Joint List, it's called, [14:59] they might not be in a government, but [15:02] they can still be supportive of the [15:04] government from outside. You know, they [15:06] have all said the both the Arab lists [15:09] have said, "We will do anything to get [15:11] Netanyahu out of power." [15:14] >> All right. [15:15] Thank you again, Ruth. That's it for [15:17] today. And thank you to our producer, [15:19] Maya Racoff. [15:20] Please make sure to join us tomorrow for [15:22] the next episode of Waiting for 61. [15:25] And don't forget to send your questions [15:27] in to waitingfor61@zaytuna.org.
