Transcript [00:01] Rabbi Schmul Brawn, the leader of [00:05] congregation Levladas, a rabbitic [00:07] teacher about kasidism and so many [00:09] different mystical topics and how to [00:11] make them practical in our own lives. [00:13] It's such an honor, privilege and [00:14] pleasure to have you with us. [00:15] >> Thank you for having me. [00:17] >> So, what is Jewish mysticism? [00:19] >> What is Jewish mysticism? Well, um the [00:22] word mysticism is an English word. [00:25] So very often it's used uh Jewish [00:28] mysticism uh synonymously with kabala [00:31] and pineimis but they're not the same [00:33] thing. [00:35] Mysticism in the English word means to [00:37] have a super sensory experience. [00:40] Mysticism is to have an experience of [00:44] the divine that's not part of the normal [00:47] rational world that we live in. Panemia [00:50] satura although it can cause someone to [00:52] have a mystical experience is very much [00:55] rational and very much could be studied [00:57] and very much is about how to experience [00:59] God even within our senses and even [01:02] within our regular mundane life [01:05] >> and so how did you come to whether it's [01:08] Jewish mysticism or pmia satra what is [01:10] your personal origin story that brought [01:12] you so close to this school of thought [01:15] >> well um [01:18] I grew up uh very very close to my my [01:21] you know family that were all holocaust [01:24] survivors with very pure faith. My [01:26] grandparents uh were in my grandmother [01:29] survived Awitz and and they always said [01:31] my grandparents that the biggest miracle [01:33] wasn't just that they survived but that [01:34] their amuna survived. And I grew up with [01:37] with Jews survivors that their faith in [01:40] God was something totally not explicable [01:45] but totally palpable. [01:48] And as I matured and I began, you know, [01:52] wanting to to experience God on my own [01:56] and I was looking with throughout [01:58] Judaism which books would be [02:01] um the best way for me to be able to [02:04] feel God in that in that intense way [02:06] that I saw that my grandparents and [02:09] those Jews that I brought up was brought [02:10] up with the way they lived it naturally, [02:14] you know, I felt like I needed to [02:15] understand it and learn about [02:17] And so I started looking around then I [02:19] found you know first the benishai and [02:22] and some of the other swarm but then [02:23] when I got to Marin Chernobyl and then I [02:28] started falling in love into withas [02:31] and [02:33] couple of months after that I was about [02:35] 15 years old Rabbi Weinberger Mosha [02:37] Weberger moved to Woodmir a couple of [02:39] blocks down and they told me he was [02:41] opening up a new shield called Kodesh [02:44] and I met him I was from the first pen [02:46] when they started the shul and uh was I [02:49] guess they say love at first sight and [02:52] he's been my rebi since and uh you know [02:55] pine through him I my thirst for hashem [03:00] was really directed towards and pimat [03:04] and the more that I matured the more [03:05] that I learned the and till today the [03:08] more that I see that uh thatus is if one [03:12] learns it the right way that is the way [03:16] to really be able to touch the divine [03:18] even today. [03:19] >> So in in an ideal world, would all Jews [03:21] be mystics? Would they all be learning [03:22] these traditions and learn these works? [03:24] >> Again, when you say mystics, I said [03:26] before that's a very tricky word because [03:28] some people think mystics are flighty [03:30] and and pineim is not flighty. And so [03:34] yes, everyone in an ideal world, [03:36] everyone would be learning these ideas [03:40] in a way that not necessarily do they [03:42] have to go off into some supernal realm, [03:44] although one can, you know, through [03:47] through one's mind at least be aware and [03:48] and ultimately meditate about those [03:51] realms, but even that everyone should be [03:53] able to partake of these ideas at least [03:55] in a way to make God palpable and [03:59] tangible. You know that what Ra Hesshel [04:01] Rabb Hesshel who was the ultimate poet [04:03] poet ofidus in English what he said the [04:06] feeling of piety the feeling of the [04:08] experience of God I mean that is [04:10] something that every Jew and non-Jew [04:12] should be feeling [04:13] >> so just to double click on that the [04:14] experience of God what is God [04:17] >> what is God [04:19] well you remind me of an anecdote that [04:22] um there was a Jewish Gurari who was a [04:25] kabad from Tel a who was very very [04:28] intellectual in the in the deep uh you [04:31] know um hcala the deep intellectual [04:35] understanding of of concepts and there [04:37] was another Jewish [04:39] who was a lot more of an ovid he was [04:41] more you know your shamim fear of heaven [04:44] you know he was didn't like too much [04:46] sophistication he's actually pinson's [04:49] great-grandfather [04:50] >> oh wow [04:51] >> um and so one time asked Moshkari what's [04:54] atmos [04:56] is the is the is a Hebrew means the [04:58] essence of god God meaning God himself. [05:01] What's atsmos? [05:02] Zamosha asked Moshkagari and as soon as [05:05] he opened his mouth to answer, Zam Mosha [05:07] slapped him across the face. He said, [05:08] "If you're opening your mouth, that's [05:09] not Atsimos. If you're opening your [05:12] mouth, that's not God." [05:13] >> You going to slap me now? [05:14] >> No, I'm not. I would. We're being [05:15] filmed. You know, but um [05:20] >> yeah, that [05:20] >> Yeah. Anything you know, I mentioned [05:22] Rashel. you know, we're the, you know, [05:24] usually we experience reality that I'm [05:26] the subject and there are objects [05:28] outside of me. But when it comes to God, [05:30] I'm the object and God is the subject. [05:33] And so God isn't a thing that could be [05:36] defined. I'm the object and everything [05:38] that I see are the objects that the [05:40] subject of God is permeating. So God is [05:43] the ground of reality. God is the [05:45] emanation of reality that comes out from [05:47] the ground and God is infinitely beyond [05:49] that. I mean there's no words. What we [05:51] pania satra gives pointers [05:55] to allow the mind to be able to hear [06:00] things which will allow it to then [06:02] transcend itself. [06:04] >> Wow. So what's the purpose of the Jewish [06:05] people? [06:08] >> Well, that's uh what's the purpose of [06:10] the Jewish people? Well, [06:12] um, God said that in Exodus chapter 19 [06:15] before he gave us the Torah, [06:18] he said as a preface to the giving of [06:20] the Torah of [06:24] you are going to be a kingdom of priests [06:25] and a holy nation. What does it mean a [06:28] kingdom of priests? [06:31] It's actually interesting. I always say [06:32] that I really understood that [06:34] appellation only from a friend of mine, [06:36] Father Jack Kuster, who's a Byzantine [06:38] Catholic priest. I really understood [06:40] because we once were speaking and we [06:41] were talking about the whole controversy [06:44] of rabbis and priests and women being [06:46] ordained etc. And you were saying that [06:48] the question for priests is totally [06:50] different than for rabbis because rabbis [06:52] are teachers which is true. A rabbi just [06:54] means a teacher. A priest in the [06:56] Catholic faith means that there's a [06:59] special a special sanctity that only [07:01] they could perform sacraments. [07:05] And so he was explaining that that in a [07:06] metaphysical thing they believed that [07:08] and I understood based on what he was [07:10] saying that now I understood what it [07:11] means that we're in other words we're a [07:14] nation that we're all priests [07:16] >> it's democratized [07:17] >> what's that [07:17] >> it's democratized [07:18] >> ultimately well democratized as as this [07:20] nation but in other words let's say in [07:23] every religion there's priests and then [07:24] there's the rest of the people so god is [07:26] the god of all of humanity but the [07:28] Jewish people are the priests of [07:30] humanity and so the Jewish people's job [07:33] is to bring God's infinite light into [07:36] the world. That's what it means that [07:37] we're the priests that like that that [07:39] we're the ones that perform the [07:41] sacraments known as mitzvos. We're the [07:43] ones that are able to draw God's [07:44] infinity through the world through Torah [07:45] and mitzvah. [07:47] And so let's say we're the all the [07:50] nations and all of humanity are about [07:52] perfecting the world and and rectifying [07:54] the world that it should be a vessel for [07:56] the divine. And all of humanity has a [07:59] part in making the world a home for God. [08:02] But the Jewish people [08:04] have that [08:06] um sacred responsibility [08:09] to bring the transcendent light of God [08:11] into the world through the priestly [08:13] service of Torah and mitzvah. [08:15] >> Beautiful. So one of the things the [08:17] priests did was the rituals in the [08:19] temple and since the temple was [08:21] destroyed parts of that element has been [08:24] transformed into prayer. How does prayer [08:26] work? [08:29] >> Well, okay. So I just want to I don't [08:33] want to be pedantic but because I did [08:36] just mention priests. So we have to [08:37] remember that prayer although it is our [08:40] sages do say that in fundamental ways it [08:42] takes the place of the sacrificial [08:44] order. [08:45] >> There was prayer before that as well. [08:46] >> Correct. And it's not something that's [08:48] just for priests. It's for all people. [08:50] Jews, non-Jews, all people in all times. [08:52] So [08:52] >> So how does it work? Prayer. Prayer is [08:55] our souls [08:58] going back into their source for a [09:00] couple of moments. Prayer is when we [09:02] when we have prayer is really a mystical [09:05] experience if you if you want to know [09:07] the truth. Prayer is supposed to be the [09:10] opposite of irrational [09:13] studying that's something you do you [09:16] know with with bringing God into you but [09:18] prayer is where you go put yourself into [09:20] God where you are supposed to transcend. [09:21] Prayer is that time that we are in [09:26] confrontation, [09:28] encounter, and finally inclusion within [09:31] God. [09:32] >> Wow. So what about Torah study? What's [09:34] the goal of Torah study? [09:36] >> To bring God into our brain. As Tanya [09:39] explains in chapter 5, Torah study is [09:41] the greatest of all mitz. Because once [09:43] we understand that the purpose of [09:45] creation and reality which the inner [09:48] light of Torah explains pine explains is [09:51] to bring God's infinite being into the [09:53] world and the Jewish people are the [09:54] priests the kanim that we're the ones [09:57] that do that through Torah mitzvah. So [10:00] you and again this is you know explained [10:01] at length in Tanya that you know in [10:03] chapter 37 where he explains that the [10:05] physical acts that we do is how we bring [10:07] God into the physical world. That's why [10:09] Judaism is primarily a religion of [10:10] practice because it's the objects that [10:13] we use and and the things we encounter [10:16] in the world that we bring God into the [10:18] world itself. But how do I bring God [10:20] into myself? That's Torah study. By [10:23] bringing God into my brain, you know, my [10:25] my grandmother, my Bobby of blessed [10:27] memory, she used to quote from her [10:28] mother, my great-grandmother of blessed [10:30] memory who went in Hitler's gas [10:33] chambers. Name was Raul Brown. She used [10:35] to say that you have to that you have to [10:40] learn every day. You have to dive in [10:42] every day. You have to pray every day as [10:43] if you're going to die tomorrow. And you [10:44] have to learn every day as if you're [10:46] going to live forever. [10:47] >> Beautiful. [10:48] >> Because prayer is like a dying. It's [10:50] like going into God. Torah study is [10:53] bringing God into you. Bringing God into [10:55] your own mind, right? And when and what [10:57] I learn and what I understand from [11:00] because Torah is Hashem. When I learn [11:02] Torah, I'm literally eating God with my [11:05] mind. Just like when I eat food, it [11:06] becomes my flesh and blood. When I learn [11:08] ideas of Torah, it becomes my mind and [11:10] God becomes my mind. [11:12] >> So, does this wisdom uh view men and [11:15] women as the same? [11:18] >> Which wisdom? [11:20] >> Torah, mysticism, this whole school of [11:22] thought, Kabala. [11:23] >> Well, when you say the same, I mean, you [11:25] just said men and women, which by [11:26] definition means they're different. [11:28] >> That means that there's two different [11:29] categories you're asking about. So, but [11:31] obviously when it comes to the same as [11:33] in can they both equally connect to God [11:36] for sure which is why you knowism [11:40] was and is a populist movement and a [11:43] renaissance in the way that the kidic [11:46] masters taught that God like you said is [11:50] the ultimate democracy and and and it's [11:52] this week's paraos alanoshim that the [11:54] women built the mishka the sanctuary for [11:57] God even more than the men and and if [11:59] the whole purpose of of creation is to [12:02] make the world into a mishkun. So of [12:04] course women in that way have that deep [12:07] connection to to to to being. Men are [12:10] more about doing psychologically. Of [12:11] course Jung says that both men and women [12:14] have the masculine and the feminine. So [12:16] we both we have the anim and the animous [12:18] but but generally the masculine is doing [12:20] and feminine is being. And when it comes [12:22] to being a mishkun to being a sanctuary [12:24] for God being in very deep ways is more [12:27] important than the doing. doing is [12:29] bringing God into the world, but being [12:31] in a way of being with God, which is [12:34] what prayer is and what the Mishkan is. [12:35] That that's something that women have in [12:38] a very deep way naturally even more than [12:41] men. Which is why where did the sages [12:43] learn out all the laws of prayer from [12:45] Kana? [12:46] >> Kana because because women by definition [12:49] have that connection that even Alia [12:51] Cohen, the the high the real high priest [12:54] couldn't understand what was going on [12:56] with her. What is the biggest obstacle [12:58] to spiritual life? [13:01] >> What is the biggest obstacle to [13:03] spiritual life? [13:13] The water boarding. We're constantly [13:16] suffering of the stimulation that is [13:19] being thrown to us literally all day, [13:22] all times. and the gullis hadas that our [13:27] ability to focus and concentrate and be [13:29] with self is in severe danger. So to be [13:33] able to have a spiritual life, one has [13:36] to be in touch with one's own spirit [13:39] and one's own spirit is part of one's [13:41] own self. And if we're constantly [13:44] outward focused and being pulled out of [13:46] ourselves all the time in such drastic [13:49] ways, ways that even me and you when we [13:51] were children, we couldn't have [13:52] imagined. You know, [13:55] that is the greatest challenge to be [13:57] able to be at peace within self, to be [14:00] able to to sit quietly, to be able to [14:03] sit today. Everything is so quick and uh [14:07] you know everything is a sound bite [14:10] you know and and and reality is [14:14] is eternal and so I have to step out of [14:19] the stream of movement of reality to the [14:22] truth of being like we said before you [14:25] know and just and and just be with [14:27] Hashem you know people like how do I dav [14:29] better which books should I read it it's [14:31] not about reading books [14:34] It's it's about being able to be with [14:36] Hashem. Just be with Hashem within [14:39] yourself and then the words will flow. [14:42] It's not about avar and this idea that [14:44] idea. It's that we're losing the ability [14:46] even to talk to another person. [14:48] How much more so to be able to talk to [14:50] Hashem, one has to be fully present to [14:53] be able to have a spiritual experience. [14:55] >> So why did like God create the world? [14:58] Why did like make the space where we [15:00] struggle with all these things? God was [15:03] perfect. [15:04] >> Yes, he was and is perfect. Um, [15:08] yes and as they say in um what do they [15:12] call a kind of comedy? Uh, no. Yes. And [15:17] I forgot. Um, he is God is perfect and [15:22] part of the perfection God wanted as the [15:25] sages revealed to us. Of course, we [15:27] can't we wouldn't know on our own, but [15:29] the sages, the Torah reveals to us that [15:31] God had a desire to have a home. [15:35] That most basic um human attribute that [15:39] all humanity shares that there's no [15:41] place like home that we all want a h a [15:43] home. You know, I I was just talking [15:45] about being at home itself, but you [15:47] know, one has to also have a place to [15:50] live that one feels at home. And you [15:52] know, it's it's really scary. There are [15:54] some people that you know live with the [15:57] same people in the same structure but [15:59] don't feel at home. So being at home is [16:01] not just being having a place where you [16:03] could put your stuff. Being home is a [16:06] place where you could feel expressed [16:08] where you could be authentic. God wants [16:11] that, wanted that and therefore created [16:15] the structure and our priestly job [16:18] together with the other nations [16:21] is to make the world into the home for [16:23] God. [16:24] >> And where does that place us? Like what [16:26] is free will? Does it exist? [16:29] >> Well, my Rebe says free will is [16:32] overrated. [16:35] Um at some level it exists. It exists. [16:37] Let's put it like this. It exists at the [16:39] level that me and you are sitting here [16:40] and having this conversation and I feel [16:42] me and you feel you. Free will exists. [16:45] We're in a prism of free will. Free [16:47] will. As long as I see a steak and it [16:49] looks delicious and I see rotten food [16:53] and it makes me nauseous, then I'm [16:55] living in a world of free will. Then I'm [16:57] still in a place where God's infinite [17:00] being is concealed. God has manifested [17:04] ashameloim as the name of concealment. [17:06] God has made that his being is throughum [17:10] through many tsum through concealments [17:12] God has made this prism of reality. He's [17:15] made himself manifest in a way that I [17:18] don't feel God even though that's really [17:20] all there is. I don't feel Hashem. I [17:22] just see a world and I see stuff and I [17:24] see challenges and I and there's just [17:26] this multiplicity. [17:28] And so that this state of the world as [17:33] with all the separation and the chaos [17:36] when I'm still in this caught within [17:38] this prism then there's free will [17:42] but the ultimate truth is to pray and do [17:46] chuva which are both the same ideas [17:48] really which is to return my soul to God [17:51] and where's Hashem where's God's here [17:54] which means to open my eyes and be aware [17:56] of the truth that really there is no [17:58] free [17:59] So, we're living in a parallel reality [18:01] where we feel it exists, but there's an [18:03] ultimate beyond it. [18:04] >> Well, [18:06] I I wouldn't say beyond it. I'd say in [18:07] it. [18:08] >> Okay. [18:08] >> But I would certainly say there is a [18:10] parallel reality. [18:12] Um, and one is called shame v, the [18:15] four-letter name of God. One is called [18:17] shame elohim, the name Elohim. And God [18:21] ultimate truth is that Hashem [18:24] that God manifests as infinite light and [18:27] as concealment and as challenges and as [18:30] [snorts] and and as hiddenness. [18:32] And our free choice really at every [18:35] moment is to give up that free choice [18:38] and go back to that ultimate truth and [18:41] allow oursel to rest in that truth of [18:44] that that loim and havay are one that [18:46] Hashem is everything. The time when that [18:48] will be really expressed is in the [18:50] messianic era with Msiah. [18:51] >> Correct. [18:52] >> What is Mashiach? [18:53] >> Exactly. Exactly that. That I'll be able [18:55] to with my eyes open. Right now we close [18:57] our eyes. We say hashem [19:01] I I hear that God is everything. That [19:05] God is the only thing there is. That [19:08] the real unity of Hashem that Hashem is [19:11] the all. That all is God and God is all. [19:12] Alt is God and God is alt. we close our [19:14] eyes because when I open them there's a [19:17] me there's a you there's there's [19:19] distinctions there's separateness [19:22] right there's there's [19:24] >> so but when mashia comes I'll open my [19:27] eyes we won't have to and that's what [19:28] the rebba said the last year that he was [19:30] talking when he was so so so much [19:33] storming about the need to bring Msiah [19:36] and he kept saying all we need to do is [19:38] open our eyes he was saying that [19:40] literally all the rectifications the [19:42] divine rectifications that need to be [19:44] done in the upper worlds in this world [19:45] are done and now it's just up to the [19:48] mabin the bride that we have to open our [19:50] eyes and open ourselves up to the groom [19:52] like it's just to have that again that [19:55] mystical experience through pinera but [19:59] have that mystical experience of [20:00] allowing ourselves to be part of the [20:02] transcendence which is within us [20:04] >> is the state of Israel part of the final [20:06] redemption [20:07] [laughter] [20:08] >> wow that's that's [20:10] >> we were talking about this messianic era [20:12] the rebi talked are getting closer and [20:14] closer to it. [20:15] >> Yes. [20:15] >> Is it is that part of the process? [20:17] >> Um well, let's put it like this. It [20:20] depends what you mean cuz you know [20:21] semantics really matter in theology. [20:25] So everything is part of the process. [20:27] Every event that ever happened from [20:30] batious barley [20:32] from you know a mitakov and the [20:34] destruction of the temple and and you [20:36] know and all thousands everything is [20:38] part of the messianic like the alterb [20:40] says in Tanya chapter 37. all part of [20:42] making the world a place for Hashem. Um [20:47] and definitely the fact that you know [20:50] Hashem made the miracle throughout the [20:52] generations that there's been even [20:55] though we've been this an [20:58] like Isaiah says um and in in Isaiah [21:01] says we are this tempest tossed [21:05] um [21:07] inconsolable [21:10] brokenhearted woman and throughout [21:12] history the Jewish people have been [21:13] thrown all over the place until today [21:15] what we're going through, you know. So [21:18] part of Hashem's kindness is that [21:20] through the storms throughout history, [21:23] he's given us lifeboats and he's given [21:25] us ways to be able to survive. Whether [21:27] it's the kindness of America, whether [21:29] it's, you know, we had in Europe [21:31] different times and we have now since [21:33] 1948 there was a miracle and and and and [21:36] Barash and we could go to Israel. So [21:38] that's all part of the being able to [21:40] survive in exile. But ultimately Msiach [21:43] and all of that is part of preparing the [21:45] world for Mashiach. But Mashiach is when [21:47] we will be able to see Hashem. Until we [21:49] see Hashem and experience God and have [21:51] the King Messiah, then Mashiach isn't [21:53] here yet. [21:54] >> What? So what is the greatest challenge [21:55] facing the world today? [21:59] >> The greatest challenge facing the entire [22:01] world. I I if I knew I'd be Messiah. [22:04] >> So what is one of those challenges that [22:06] you see? might not be the greatest, but [22:08] it's something that you can say this is [22:09] a real challenge. [22:10] >> I think it's what I said before. I think [22:12] it's that we're losing ourselves. I [22:13] think that, you know, um the, [22:19] you know, besides the the many [22:21] generations of layers of trauma that [22:23] that have gone that that humanity as a [22:25] whole and the Jewish people specifically [22:27] are carrying in our bodies, I think [22:30] right now because of social media and [22:32] because of the iPhones and because of [22:35] the news, I think that we're losing our [22:40] humanity. We're losing what it means to [22:42] be a person. what it means to be a a [22:44] person with an inner world. [22:47] And that's why the world looks that is [22:49] falling apart because if you don't have [22:51] it, if there's no I then there can't be [22:53] a you. If if I don't have an eye, I [22:56] can't ever say I love you if if I don't [22:58] have that real feeling of an eye. And I [23:01] think that we're really, you know, um, [23:04] my wife mentioned to me that she saw a [23:06] couple of weeks ago that in one [23:08] newspaper, one physical newspaper today [23:12] has more information about the world, [23:15] one newspaper has more information about [23:18] the world than a person living until [23:20] 15th century Europe would have heard [23:22] their entire life about the world. One [23:25] newspaper. [23:26] >> Mindboggling. And like we're not meant [23:28] our minds are not meant to process this [23:31] much information [23:35] and and and and like and so we're having [23:37] conversations with a million people and [23:39] we think that you know with all the [23:40] telecommunications we think that we're [23:42] we're having better communications with [23:44] people but you and I have experienced [23:45] that it's not the case because until you [23:47] sit down and talk to a person face to [23:48] face you're not really you know George [23:51] George Bernard Shaw once said that the [23:53] greatest danger of communication is the [23:55] illusion that it could ever And that's [23:57] even when you're sitting and talking to [23:58] a person face to face with text and this [24:00] and and so we're we're you know we're [24:02] not filling ourselves up with human [24:04] interaction. We're not filling ourselves [24:07] up with any real information because [24:09] we're right away on to the next thing. [24:11] And so you know I I meditate a lot and I [24:15] I don't know how people survive without [24:17] doing it. [24:18] >> Wow. So what is Jewish meditation? cuz I [24:21] know this is one of your areas of [24:23] expertise and you help you see it as an [24:25] antidote to ground you for the this [24:26] problem that you've highlighted. [24:28] >> Well, again, Jewish meditation is [24:30] meditation for Jews, but this meditation [24:32] is something that's a necessity for [24:35] humanity like an an electric appliance [24:37] you have to plug in. So, we know that we [24:40] sleep, but you know, today's day and [24:42] age, a lot of people are so anxious, [24:43] they don't sleep very well. We plug [24:45] ourselves in by meditating. Meditating [24:46] means to have an inner Sabbath, which [24:50] means that I allow myself to come back [24:52] to self, to be able to just be fully [24:55] present in the here and now with my [24:57] breath, with myself, which literally [24:59] means to reset as my who am I before I'm [25:03] extending to anything outside of myself. [25:05] So that's just necessity for sanity and [25:09] to be a person. Jewish meditation [25:12] is again I mean again but it would be [25:16] the same for non-Jews as well because I [25:18] believe non-Jews also have to pray but [25:21] Jewish meditation would would [25:22] specifically use perhaps some of the [25:25] texts within the Jewish corpus but we [25:28] would then after returning to self [25:32] Jewish meditation or really any [25:35] meditation is then to go to what's [25:37] deeper than my ego self than self and [25:40] That is the ground of where myself where [25:43] the mask of my person is coming from [25:45] which is God. So which is prayer which [25:48] is chuva you know like Kalabak said [25:50] return to the land of your soul. So [25:53] medit Jewish meditation or any [25:54] meditation is that ability to [25:58] um instead of being outward focused on [26:00] specifics to rather return into the [26:04] general being of self and then finally [26:06] dissolve into the general being of all [26:08] reality which is Hashem. [26:10] >> Wow. So you talked about this unique [26:13] time we're living in. How has modernity [26:15] changed Jewish mysticism? How has it [26:18] changed Kabala Satara? [26:21] Well, you know, everything since the sin [26:25] of the tree of knowledge of good and [26:27] evil, um, until Msiah comes, everything [26:30] is a mixed bag. Everything is has a good [26:33] side and a bad side. So, of course, [26:35] there's the challenge of modernity [26:38] in that, like I've been saying again and [26:40] again, the hustle and bustle which takes [26:43] us away from Vadas and being able to be [26:46] fully present. You know, I remember I [26:48] keep mentioning my grandmother, my [26:50] Bobby. You know, when I was like in the [26:52] 80s growing up, there was like one phone [26:54] in the house. And I remember her saying, [26:56] "Here in America, everyone is rushing, [27:00] rushing, rushing." Could you imagine? [27:02] She in then it was rushing in the 80s [27:05] >> with one phone. [27:06] >> With one phone in the house. [27:07] >> No, every person in the house has a [27:08] phone [27:09] >> cuz she grew up in Europe. So like, so [27:11] of course that aspect of modernity is [27:13] very challenging. the loss of of of [27:16] being able to be at home in within one's [27:19] with within oneself. There's of course [27:21] also the challenge of modernity of the [27:24] exposure. I mean, the amount of [27:27] stuff that we're exposed to in the [27:30] negative stuff, the darkness is like [27:32] overwhelming. [27:34] And you know, [27:36] one of the movies from I remember from [27:38] as a kid, they said you could run but [27:40] you can't hide. You know, so when it [27:42] comes to the darkness that modernity and [27:43] the technology brings to us, it's almost [27:45] impossible to you can run but you can't [27:48] hide. But on the other hand, modernity [27:50] on the flip side has a lot of positive [27:53] po opportunities because you know you if [27:56] we're able to utilize and engage [27:58] modernity and the technology in a way [28:00] that to spread consciousness and and and [28:05] it's almost like ironic to use to use [28:07] technology as a way to spread the need [28:09] to remove oneself from technology. But [28:11] that that exactly is what the Gumarra [28:13] says. The alter ebi says in chapter 29 [28:15] of tani he brings from the from the [28:17] gummorra that uh says that why did god [28:20] picky who was a convert from adom to be [28:24] the prophet that would prophesize the [28:25] downfall of eddom because he himself was [28:28] from Edom [28:29] >> like a tree that you take the branch of [28:31] the tree to make the axe that you cut [28:33] the tree with. [28:34] >> In other words, if you want to sweeten [28:36] negativity, you have to sweeten it from [28:38] the darkness itself. And so the [28:40] technology and the hustle and bustle of [28:42] modernity has to be used in a way to in [28:46] to put God into the world. Put God into [28:48] world to use the technology as a way of [28:50] spreading the message. [28:52] You know don't don't allow your humanity [28:55] to get lost. Don't allow your soul and [28:57] your spirit to get lost. You know [28:59] Kerkagard already again this was you [29:01] know my grandmother lived she passed [29:03] away about 20 years ago. Kirkagard was [29:04] in the 1800s and he was already saying [29:06] talking about the loss of self. He he he [29:09] write he has the sickness unto death [29:10] which is his book about you know despair [29:13] about the loss of self. He he said that [29:16] any other any other loss is bound to be [29:18] noticed. the loss of an arm, $5 a wife, [29:21] but the loss of self, nobody notices, [29:24] you know, it just nobody even pays [29:27] attention, you know, [29:28] >> and and so in that way, modernity has to [29:31] be, you know, we have to utilize the [29:34] vessels and and the technology to to [29:37] make sure that people don't become [29:39] robots, automatons, you know. I I [29:42] actually was having a conversation I [29:43] don't want to say with who but somebody [29:44] that you know and he was and and I was [29:47] like joking that like oh soon they're [29:49] going to make you put computer chips in [29:51] our brain and he sent me that Elon Musk [29:54] with Starlink they're already planning [29:55] to do that and he was like saying it as [29:58] a positive thing and I was like I used [30:00] like this was a person that I respected [30:03] and like I was just thinking of two if [30:04] you remember the movie 2001 a space [30:06] odyssey I'm like seriously are we really [30:07] going on to like to become robots like [30:10] we have to remain human beings God [30:12] doesn't want robots or angel. God wants [30:14] human beings and we have to maintain [30:15] that humanity. [30:16] >> So what's the difference between Jewish [30:18] mysticism and other forms of mysticism? [30:21] I know that you're you know a believer [30:22] in all different schools of thought and [30:24] you've had exposure to different areas. [30:26] What makes it unique? [30:28] >> So okay again if so if we're going to [30:31] continue using the word mysticism in [30:32] that way and comparing a Jewish and [30:34] non-Jewish mysticism. So then it's very [30:35] important to say as follows. again, you [30:37] know, I keep saying that mysticism is a [30:39] very tricky word, you know, um [30:44] because you know, Evelyn Underh Hill in [30:46] her famous book about mysticism talks [30:48] about that it's essentially something [30:50] it's experiences of the unconscious that [30:52] are by definition beyond words. So, it's [30:54] hard to talk about. But what is [30:55] important to point out if we're [30:56] mentioning the difference between Jews [30:58] and non-Jews in this area of [31:00] experiencing the divine. So [31:03] going back to the idea that I mentioned [31:05] the Jewish people being the priests of [31:07] nations. So what does that mean visav [31:09] experiencing Hashem? So um you know in [31:14] 1972 [31:16] there was the first international [31:18] conference on Jewish mysticism in London [31:20] and they invited Baba as a as a guest [31:23] guest of honor and of course he [31:25] declined. I mean he I think he's as far [31:27] as I know the only person that was [31:28] invited a couple of times to the White [31:30] House and he declined because he said [31:31] didn't have enough time you know to [31:34] listen to you know widows cry cry and [31:38] people cry that he had time but the [31:39] white house he didn't know anyway so he [31:41] didn't go to this conference but he sent [31:42] a letter [31:45] and in the letter which I think is [31:47] printed in many of the additions of the [31:48] Hebrew English Tanya in the letter he [31:50] says like this if you're having a [31:51] conference about Jewish misus is it's [31:53] important to point out [31:56] what is the difference between Jewish [31:59] mysticism and non-Jewish mysticism [32:02] because again if we define mysticism [32:05] defining that word as not the corpus of [32:08] of of Torah known as pimata but rather [32:11] mysticism as actually having a super [32:13] sensory super rational an experience of [32:16] the divine that's beyond my regular [32:18] experience so that all religions with [32:21] Judaism has have in common because like [32:23] I said when one is able to rest into [32:25] self and to go to higher states of [32:26] consciousness. That's something that's [32:28] endemic to all of the human condition, [32:29] to all people, all human beings. [32:32] However, what the Labavatreb has said in [32:34] the letters that's important to remember [32:35] that in Judaism, the most mystical [32:39] experience, [32:41] if again using mysticism as an [32:43] experience of the divine, the most [32:45] mystical experience that a Jew could [32:47] have is doing a mitzvah is actually [32:50] doing a mitzvah action. Why? [32:54] again based on Tanya chapter 35 etc. [32:58] Because [33:00] no meditation, [33:02] no going into self could ever get me to [33:04] the infinite, to the transcendent, to [33:07] yud v. [33:11] Prophets of the of the nations, mystics [33:13] of the nations are all connected to [33:15] shemokim, right? And sheim is the all [33:18] sheim is is God as reality. But the [33:21] infinite transcendent essence of God, we [33:23] can't reach with our mind. No matter how [33:25] much one meditates, that infinite [33:27] essence of God could only be given to us [33:31] through matan Torah through Torah [33:33] mitzvah. And so when a Jew does a [33:35] mitzvah, [33:38] we are uniting with God's essence with [33:40] atmospher. [33:44] >> And so that's important to point out [33:46] that whereas when it comes to the mind [33:49] process of meditation, we're very [33:52] similar in many ways to other other [33:54] mystical traditions. In fact, I I you [33:57] know, I I personally gain a lot from [33:59] from Buddhism in understanding our own [34:03] tradition of meditation because in many [34:06] ways it remained an oral tradition that [34:08] wasn't written down as much as Buddhism [34:10] does talk about meditation in that way. [34:13] But when it comes to the mystical [34:16] actual experience of uniting with [34:21] God's very being, we can't do that with [34:23] our own mind. that you have to do a [34:25] mitzvah. [34:26] >> So, as an extension of that, mitzvah is [34:28] sort of the religious expression. Um, [34:32] can one study mysticism if they're not [34:34] religious? [34:36] >> What does religious mean? [34:39] >> Let's say doing those mitzvot as a [34:41] practice daily. So, whether that means [34:43] eating kosher food. [34:44] >> So, I'm I'm trying I'm answering you [34:47] really. What does one have to do with [34:48] the other? Another said religious. You [34:50] might mean observant. Another by mean [34:52] >> say religiously observant. [34:53] >> Oh, okay. Because religious I I like to [34:56] use the word religious the way Rabbi Ra [34:57] Hesshel Rabbi AJ Hessel used the word [34:59] religious which is having a godly [35:01] consciousness. So that's something that [35:04] is not necessarily dependent on [35:07] practice. [35:08] >> Yeah. [35:09] >> But if I want to number one [35:13] like I just mentioned fuse with God's [35:16] infinite being transcend time and space [35:20] that I need to follow hala. [35:23] And if I want to bring God into the [35:25] world and hasten the coming of Messiah [35:27] that I need hala. [35:29] >> Okay. And can it be dangerous? [35:32] >> Can what be dangerous? [35:32] >> The study of Jewish mysticism. [35:34] >> Not anymore. We're not. No. The d the [35:38] danger was in the old days when people [35:40] would uh actually enter those realms. [35:44] I you know, as long as a person still [35:46] enjoys a slice of pizza, you're okay. [35:49] You're not It's not going to [35:50] >> That's the litmus test. [35:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. If you still if a slice of [35:53] pizza still talks to you, you'll be all [35:55] right. [35:55] >> And how has this affected your personal [35:57] relationships? You know, as you [35:59] explained, the Rebi said it's got to [36:00] come down into mitzvot into application. [36:06] But this study also affects your [36:08] relationships with people. You cited [36:10] many people, whether it's your wife, [36:12] whether it's your grandmother, you know, [36:15] thinking about your children, your [36:16] students, your congregants. Can you [36:18] think of a practical example where the [36:20] study of mysticism has influenced the [36:22] relationships you have? [36:23] >> Well, you mentioned my children. So, [36:25] I'll I'll I'll tell you an anecdote that [36:27] my Moshu, he's my second son, when he [36:30] was, I think about nine or 10 years old. [36:33] So he asked me [36:36] he said you know he was learning about [36:38] the idea of anon mado thatus teaches [36:41] that that god is literally in everything [36:44] that that in the physical that there's [36:46] no place that god is not found [36:49] there's no place void of him so he was [36:51] like learning it and he's like well how [36:52] am I allowed to step on the floor if [36:54] hashem is in the floor how am I allowed [36:55] to step on the floor [36:56] >> beautiful [36:58] >> and hashem helped me and I right away he [37:00] put the answer in my head and I said [37:01] well because hashem is in your feet also [37:03] though [37:05] >> stunning. [37:07] >> And I think that that's, you know, I [37:09] think that that if the more that I'm [37:11] able to [37:15] feel Hashem in the world and in myself, [37:17] then of course I feel Hashem in the [37:19] other and pluribus, right? The the from [37:23] the many become one. And the more that I [37:26] always like to quote Meister Ehart he [37:28] was a great Christian mystic and he said [37:31] as follows. He said theologians of the [37:34] world may may argue but all the mystics [37:37] of the world speak the same language [37:41] because theology you know when you talk [37:44] about you ideas and and language and [37:48] opinions and and and you know details so [37:52] there people are always even people that [37:54] are in your own synagogue you're going [37:56] to argue with you know but mysticism [37:58] which is the feeling of the of of of the [38:01] the divine [38:02] When you touch that essence of reality, [38:05] that's international. It's multi-racial, [38:08] it's multi-religion, and it helps one in [38:12] my relationships with all people around [38:14] me, my children, my spouse because I [38:18] understand that it's God looking at me [38:20] through their eyes. [38:21] >> Beautiful. So to conclude, you know, [38:23] you've shared such profound teachings [38:25] based on these questions that are very [38:26] much either theological about or [38:30] practical. I'd like to just ask you to [38:32] share a teaching. [38:33] >> A teaching? [38:34] >> Yeah. What's something that inspires [38:36] you, a meaningful idea that you come [38:38] back to or just that you're thinking [38:39] about right now? Just a short idea that [38:41] we can end this beautiful conversation [38:42] with. [38:43] >> Okay. [38:45] Um, one of the greatest teachers ofus uh [38:49] was a Jew by the name of Rapil Paracher. [38:51] Raill of Par was aid of the mitlerba the [38:55] second rebi of the [38:58] um I happened to I I was born on his y [39:01] site and so he writes as follows you [39:05] know begins the code of Jewish law the [39:09] first [39:11] is not just chronologically the first [39:14] but the most important and the [39:16] foundation of Judaism [39:19] is [39:21] I have placed God before me at all [39:22] times. That's how begins. It's a verse [39:26] from Psalm 16. [39:29] I have placed God before me at all [39:30] times. And then the Ra quotes my [39:33] manities and guard the perplexed part [39:35] three that [39:38] a Jew goes through life knowing that I'm [39:42] always in the presence of the king. [39:47] And her pill parach says that [39:51] is correct language [39:54] according to nigla the revealed external [39:57] aspect of Torah [39:59] meaning as I was saying before when your [40:01] eyes are still open before you meditate [40:03] before you enter that world of pinemius [40:06] then I'm standing before the king that I [40:09] and the king are two different things [40:12] and I'm in the presence of the King [40:14] Pilatra says, "But once a person learns [40:17] and knows that all of my reality is just [40:20] the vitality of the divine light that's [40:23] flowing and emanating and becoming me [40:25] every moment. And that light, that ray [40:28] that is the energy that is what I am, is [40:32] within God's infinite light. Like the [40:34] ray of the sun, when it's still in the [40:35] sun, then I'm not standing before the [40:38] king. I'm within the king. I'm I'm just [40:41] dissolved and all there is is the king. [40:43] So you know if like let if if I if [40:47] before prayer if let's say during the [40:50] course of a day I have to function in [40:52] that world that all of life is forever [40:54] lived in the presence of God that I'm in [40:56] the king's presence. [40:58] Prayer at least or and prayer doesn't [41:00] just have to be when you say the words. [41:02] It could be when one wants to have a [41:03] mystical experience is to lose that [41:06] distinction that it's not me and the [41:07] king as two separate realities. But to [41:09] really feel my being as one with the [41:12] essence and being of Hashem. [41:14] >> Stunning. Well, thank you so much for [41:16] this riveting conversation. [41:17] >> Thank you. [41:18] >> And I think that profound idea that you [41:19] ended with is really sort of our life [41:21] purpose and I think it touches on [41:23] everything you've said to be at one with [41:24] Hashem. There's moments, you know, when [41:26] we were speaking that I saw you close [41:28] your eyes and there's special shabas [41:29] that we've experienced where I've seen [41:31] that real oneness and I give you a [41:33] blessing that you can continue to really [41:35] feel at one with um God and also not [41:38] just in yourself through your amazing [41:40] meditative work, through your amazing [41:42] teachings, through your congregation to [41:44] inspire others to do the same. [41:45] >> Thank you very much. Thank you. [41:46] >> Thank you. Thank you so much.
