Transcript [00:00] This was priceless. Medi Hassan gets [00:03] absolutely educated by IDF spokesman [00:07] Jonathan Conrikus. Take a look. [00:09] >> Now, I want to point out a few things if [00:12] I may uninterrupted. One would be that [00:15] even Hamas and the Islamic Jihad and [00:18] another smaller organization called the [00:20] resistance committees they have issued [00:23] obituaries themselves of 71 out of the [00:27] 170 terrorists on the name have been [00:29] claimed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad and [00:32] yes I agree I've gone through I've [00:34] sifted through the names I've looked at [00:36] the uh the committee to protect [00:39] journalists and other lists and I agree [00:41] that there are not 100 they're not [00:44] identical and that is an issue that [00:46] Israel needs to deal with. But I would [00:47] >> well they're significantly different to [00:49] be clear. There are significant numbers [00:51] of people who don't the majority of the [00:54] obit list is not on there. [00:56] >> There are still 71 terrorists and this [00:59] is where I really expected you to be [01:02] above what you've currently displayed. [01:05] Um, and that is to say, you know what, [01:06] I've been saying that Israel has killed [01:09] when Hamas and Islamic Jihad say in [01:12] themselves that 71 out of 190 people [01:16] that have been claimed in various [01:18] sources. It's not 71 out of 190. [01:21] >> Yes, it is 71. That's not true. It's not [01:22] 71 out of 190. The 190 is not the same [01:25] as the 170. But it's not the same list, [01:28] Jonathan. It's a totally different list. [01:30] You're lying. It's a totally different [01:32] list. I know it is. [01:33] >> I've been through it. So don't lie to [01:34] people. [01:35] >> Uh me, if you want to start interrupting [01:38] already, that's a new low even for you. [01:40] And I [01:40] >> if you lie, I'll fact check you. Pers [01:43] fact. You can't say factually false [01:45] statements. [01:46] >> You are false. It's false propaganda. [01:49] It's not 70 out of 190. [01:51] >> Who lies and who doesn't lie? Mi, [01:53] >> you're the spokesman for a genocidal [01:55] military. You're a spokesman for a [01:57] military that's indicted at the ICC. [01:59] >> I know them better than you do. And you [02:00] are no one to election. No, you don't. [02:03] Not about propaganda. Well, let me stay. [02:05] All right. Let me let me jump. Let me [02:06] let me let me just let me Wait a minute. [02:09] Let me just state Let me just state Let [02:11] me just state again. Let me just state [02:13] again the committee. Let me just be [02:15] clear, Jonathan. So that viewers viewers [02:17] may be confused now. So let me just [02:19] remind everybody what we know as a fact. [02:22] The committee to protect journalists [02:23] lists 190 deaths of Palestinian [02:26] reporters and media workers that is [02:28] documented during the war. Right. [02:30] >> Out of which they've already wait [02:32] because they were caught by let me [02:34] finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. [02:36] About 78 people appear on both the IDF [02:39] list and the CPJ list. Meaning they [02:42] disagree about whether those people were [02:44] journalists or militants. But the the [02:46] majority the majority do not appear on [02:49] the IDF list. So when you try and [02:51] conflate the two lists, it is [02:53] deliberately misleading people. No, what [02:55] I'm saying is very clear that I expect [02:59] it is I'm not saying that the numbers [03:00] that the IDF provided are perfect. I'm [03:02] saying that this should at least have [03:05] caused serious people who treat [03:07] themselves and want to be accredited as [03:09] serious journalists to say there's 71 [03:12] names of journalists that are on various [03:14] lists. It isn't only journalists. Why [03:17] are you are you being dumb or dishonest? [03:20] 71 names that no one called journalist [03:21] name them themselves. Why you not [03:23] understand? [03:23] >> What I can say, what I can hang on. What [03:26] I can say, the CPJ didn't What I can say [03:28] is that the CPJ removed 19 men from its [03:31] own list when its own further [03:33] investigations found they were [03:35] combatants. [03:36] >> No, that's not their own. No, if if you [03:38] want to be factual, hang on. If you want [03:40] to be factual, CPJ were dragged into [03:43] taking names off the list after [03:45] civilians on the internet and all kinds [03:48] of researchers exposed. And they did it [03:50] twice. First they took down eight and [03:52] then they took down almost I think it [03:54] was 23 of them. [03:54] >> They've actually taken down they've [03:56] actually taken 27 people off their [03:58] original list. Right. So they have been [04:00] doing their utmost to try and get to M [04:02] truth. But again Jonathan look obviously [04:06] I've already conceded to at the start of [04:08] all this but I'm not naive enough to not [04:10] think that some people were pretending [04:12] to be journalists or using media badges [04:14] or whatever who were mass terrorists. [04:16] I'm sure that was the case. The question [04:18] is how many and how many genuine [04:20] journalists have been brutally killed of [04:23] which it seems to be still a lot of [04:25] people a lot of journalists. Let's [04:27] remind ourselves [04:27] >> I want to say so to that peers that's a [04:30] that's a very important point and I [04:32] agree with you 100%. A journalist who is [04:35] only a journalist should never ever be [04:37] targeted and anybody in a combat zone [04:40] should make real efforts to keep those [04:43] persons safe and I know that the IDF [04:45] does that. I also know that the IDF does [04:48] great efforts in order to kill [04:50] terrorists and the 190 people that are [04:53] on the list that the IDF disclosed were [04:55] first and foremost. [04:56] >> It's also true. It is also true that the [04:58] IDF have killed over 75,000 people in [05:03] Gaza in response to [05:05] >> No, it isn't. No, it isn't. [05:07] You based that on Hamas numbers. You [05:09] know that when you say [05:10] >> Israel's already admitted that you've [05:12] already conceded, Israel's government [05:14] has conceded that Gaza Health Ministry [05:16] numbers are broadly accurate. So why are [05:18] you disputing your own government's [05:20] position on this? [05:21] >> Listen, PI, if you take Hamas numbers [05:23] and you include,000 [05:26] people, Listen, Pierce, let's be [05:28] serious. You say that those numbers are [05:30] accurate. [05:30] >> The Israeli governments conceded the the [05:32] Gaza Health numbers are broadly [05:34] accurate. No, that was an off-the-cuff [05:37] statement a long time ago by someone who [05:40] I don't know how connected he was to [05:41] fact, but the fact of the matter has he [05:43] been taken to a gulagon. [05:46] >> Jonathan, you're struggling today, [05:47] Jonathan, with the propaganda [05:48] >> and others other serious an analysts [05:51] have looked into the numbers that Hamas [05:53] have been sharing and the economists say [05:55] more than 100,000. [05:56] >> How many have died then, Jonathan? The [05:58] obvious very clear statement is that all [06:01] of those liars including me who have [06:03] been paring this nonstop genocide, [06:06] >> it doesn't Well, hang on. Let's be [06:08] clear, Jonathan. If the if the Gaza [06:11] Health Ministry numbers are wrong, how [06:13] many people have been killed? [06:15] >> Yeah. So, that's a that's a good [06:16] question and I know you love asking it [06:18] and I know you've asked several Israelis [06:20] about it and here's the numbers that I [06:23] know based on the information that I've [06:25] been able to corroborate from Israeli [06:27] sources, from Hamas sources, from open [06:29] source intel and it is the follows. [06:31] >> The IDF gathering information from Hamas [06:34] sources. You do trust them after all. [06:35] >> Yeah. When they issue obituaries, [06:37] [laughter] [06:38] >> you've lost your friends in this a bit [06:40] of a [06:41] >> Yeah. when they issue an obituary and [06:43] when they play when they [06:45] >> you said you spoken to your mass sources [06:47] who are these people [06:48] >> when are you sympathizer [06:50] >> fears when they issue obituaries and [06:53] when they pay stipens to a widow I sure [06:55] as I will definitely take that into [06:58] account and when kamas holds a military [07:00] funeral from someone who otherwise [07:03] stop you according to you then Jonathan [07:07] how many people have been killed in Gaza [07:09] since the war started [07:10] >> right so the number of uninvolved people [07:14] that probably were not combatants based [07:17] on those different sources of [07:19] information. The corroboration of the [07:20] different sources according to my [07:22] understanding is around 38 or 39,000 [07:26] people. That is what I understand based [07:28] on insufficient in how many terrorists [07:31] based on [07:32] >> and at least 25,000 terrorists where the [07:35] IDF knows with a high level of certainty [07:38] not 100% because no military ever. [07:41] >> So your figure is about 63,000 is that [07:44] right in total [07:46] >> roughly. And then you have so you're [07:48] saying it's 12 or so less than the [07:50] official regard. You're also you're also [07:53] not factoring in natural deaths and [07:55] you're not factoring in deaths caused by [07:58] >> let's take your figure [08:01] I hear you. Let's take your figure. [08:03] 38,000 civilians then have been killed. [08:09] >> Yes. [08:09] >> Okay. [08:10] >> And how many civilians How many [08:12] civilians were killed on October the [08:13] 7th? [08:15] almost 1,300. But I think they weren't [08:17] all civilians. [08:19] There were several lie. [08:22] >> Stop lying, Jonathan. [08:24] >> Stop lying, Jonathan. [08:25] >> Peers. [08:25] >> Yeah. [08:26] >> I think you're making a totally [08:28] irrelevant comparison. [08:29] >> I'm going to make a direct comparison. [08:31] We can do comparisons. I'm just going to [08:33] make one comparison. I'm going to make [08:36] one comparison. Jonathan, let me finish. [08:38] Based on your own figures, you say [08:41] 38,000 civilians have been killed. It [08:43] has been reported that of the,200 who [08:45] were killed on October the 7th, 400 were [08:48] military and 800 were civilians. So you [08:52] there is now currently by your numbers [08:54] 38,000 people civilians in Gaza have [08:58] been killed in response to the murder of [09:00] 800 people. That is why many people view [09:03] the IDF response as being [09:05] disproportionate. Even if we take your [09:07] absolutely even of course nonsense clear [09:11] of course you would say that nonsense [09:12] because [09:13] >> there's 40 times as many civilians. [09:15] >> If you claim that only journalists [09:18] active journalists were killed were [09:20] murdered by the IDF [09:22] journalists that speak truth to power. [09:25] journalists that didn't hesitate to [09:27] attack Hamas. [09:29] So why are you so obsessed with opening [09:31] the Gaza strip for other journalists? [09:33] Those are journalists that worked for [09:35] CNN, for BBC, for Sky News. And [09:37] according to your argument, they were [09:40] journalists, not terrorists. So if the [09:42] Gaza strip is wide open, [09:44] >> but I've said very clearly, hang on, [09:45] hang on. I've said very amit I've said [09:47] very clearly and hang on, hang on, hang [09:50] on, I've said very clearly, let's be [09:52] clear, I've said very clearly, [09:54] international journalists. I'm not [09:56] talking about Palestinian journalists [09:58] operating in Gaza over which there is [10:00] clearly a dispute about the number who [10:01] were [clears throat] legitimate [10:02] journalists and the number who were not. [10:04] I'm talking about the ongoing ban [10:07] unprecedented actually of the Israeli [10:10] government banning international [10:11] journalists from operating freely in [10:13] Gaza. They can and by the way Jonathan [10:15] Krikus has agreed with me on this point [10:17] since pretty much the start of the war. [10:19] And I simply said to you as a jer as an [10:21] Israeli journalist, whatever your views [10:24] about any of this, how can you be [10:26] comfortable with such a grotesque [10:28] ongoing suppression of free press to get [10:31] to the bottom of what has been happening [10:32] there? [10:34] >> Well, I'm not a spokesperson for the [10:35] Israeli government and you can refer the [10:37] question. [10:38] >> But what is your view? What is your [10:39] opinion? [10:39] >> I my view is that the Gaza Strip could [10:42] have been open earlier. But to be [10:44] honest, when I hear this discussion, I [10:46] don't think anything would change in the [10:48] distorted perception according to which [10:51] Israel can do no right and kamas can do [10:53] no wrong. You have just described for [10:56] the last few minutes how Israel lied and [10:58] Israel cannot enjoy the benefit of the [11:00] doubt. But who can enjoy the benefit of [11:02] the doubt? Of course, Hamas. Now I have [11:04] to explain something which is crucial. [11:07] There is no such thing. [11:08] >> The National Human Rights Organization [11:10] says who enjoys the benefit of the [11:11] doubt. [11:11] >> There is no there. Please let me finish. [11:13] Thank you so much. There is no such [11:14] thing as the Ministry of Health in Gaza. [11:17] It's Hamas. There is no such thing as [11:20] journalists in Gaza as a whole because [11:23] they all work for Hamas. It's like [11:25] expecting to have a free coverage in [11:27] North Korea. By the way, even worse than [11:29] this because if you do not report [11:31] exactly what they asked, you'll find [11:34] yourself. [11:34] >> What did you report when you were [11:36] working for IDF radio out of interest? [11:38] Do you really compare the Democrat? [11:39] >> Were you critical of the IDF when you [11:41] worked on IDF radio [11:42] >> or were you? [11:43] >> Of course. So, [11:43] >> you're talking about propaganda [11:46] media. [11:46] >> Yes, he was. And what you're doing is [11:49] I'd like to hear that. Tells me Pierce. [11:52] Pierce what you're doing. It really [11:53] tells me. Sorry if I'm insulting, but [11:56] how ignorant you are and how you're [11:57] trying to make [11:58] >> Well, I'm sorry you're interrupting. I'm [12:00] sorry you're interrupting Amit, [12:01] Jonathan, because I know you're big on [12:03] Why don't you let [laughter] [12:05] that Don't interrupt, Jonathan. You're [12:07] big on interrupting. You're interrupting [12:08] me. Show some respect. While while PICE [12:11] was busy interrupting me, so please [12:12] don't take his role. Now I want to [12:14] answer your question. If you would be [12:17] familiar with the Israeli media [12:18] landscape, you would have known that one [12:20] of the most critical news outlets [12:23] towards the government and especially [12:24] the Netanyahu government is the IDF [12:27] radio station. That's the reason by the [12:29] way why the coalition wanted to [12:32] legislate against it being operating [12:35] under the IDF. So the answer is yes. And [12:37] another answer is that you cannot [12:39] compare the IDF in a democratic country, [12:43] the IDF radio to the fundamentalist [12:46] terrorist clonatic dictatorship of Kamas [12:49] in the Gaza Strip. [12:50] >> Yeah, great job here by both Jonathan [12:52] and Amit Seagal, somebody who is [12:54] incredible in the Israeli journalist [12:56] space and Piers is trying to brand him [12:58] as some Israeli puppet for just being in [13:01] the national media. something that you [13:03] know you can claim about peers just a [13:05] few years ago being on mainstream UK [13:08] channels. Uh but you know Mediasan is [13:11] somebody who will you know go on and [13:14] consistently talk about how he's against [13:16] Islamism and terrorism and you know very [13:19] far to to the kind of you know extreme [13:23] Islam type views or type people or type [13:27] you know jihadist basically. And then [13:30] when a jihadist goes the fly Dubai [13:32] hijacking didn't say a word, right? You [13:36] know, when Hamas goes and does X, Y, and [13:38] Z, doesn't say a word, you see him [13:40] completely silent on Twitter. And that [13:43] is a because many of his fans are [13:46] supporters of those groups and and and [13:48] Islamism and B because he himself is a [13:53] sympathizer. You know, he is somebody [13:56] who will, you know, just like they talk [13:58] about the you have the moderate Muslim [14:00] and you have the Islamist. The Islamist [14:02] will say, "Do what I say or I'll kill [14:04] you." And the moderate Muslim will say, [14:08] "Do what he says or he'll kill you or do [14:11] what I say or he'll kill you." So, he [14:13] just, you know, hands off the job uh to [14:16] his Islamist friend. He does. He's not [14:18] going to get in the way. Put it that [14:19] way. He has no problem with the West [14:21] falling. uh he has no problem with the [14:24] UK falling. He has no problem with [14:25] America letting in hundreds of millions [14:28] of migrants and completely changing the [14:30] landscape of that country. In fact, he [14:32] encourages it. He wants it to happen. Uh [14:36] but great job again Jonathan defending [14:38] Israel and defending the West uh on [14:41] Pierce Morgan. It's very hostile [14:44] environment. So kudos to anybody still [14:46] willing to go on the show and defend uh [14:49] those two topics. Thank you for watching [14:52] and I'll see you in the next one.
