Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for [music] 61, JTA's [00:05] Israel election podcast, where we break [00:08] down the fundamentals of Israel's 2026 [00:10] [music] election, the politics, the [00:12] players, and what's at stake as the [00:14] country heads to the polls. [00:16] I'm Ami Eden, the CEO and executive [00:19] editor of 70 Faces Media, the [00:21] organization behind the Jewish [music] [00:23] Telegraphic Agency. [00:25] and I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:28] correspondent. Today marks 9 days until [00:31] Israelis cast their votes. One note [00:34] before we begin. Every Friday, we'll be [00:37] answering questions from you, our [00:38] listeners. [music] [00:39] So, if something sparks your curiosity, [00:41] send us your questions to [00:42] waiting461jta.org. [music] [00:45] Today we're going to talk about the [00:46] fallout from the violent attack by [00:50] masked extremist settlers on Friday [00:51] against Washington Post photographer [00:53] Heidi Lavine and Palestinian olive [00:56] harvesters. Ruth, according to the [00:57] Washington Post, she was knocked to the [00:59] ground, beaten with sticks, and [01:01] repeatedly kicked by masked Israeli [01:02] settlers while covering the Palestinian [01:05] olive harvest in the West Bank. She [01:07] suffered fractured vertebrae, a broken [01:09] rib, cuts across her body, and a severe [01:12] hand injury that required surgery after [01:14] her finger was torn open, exposing bone. [01:17] Ruth, can you set the stage for us a [01:21] little more about what what has what [01:22] what did happen and what has happened [01:25] since then? [01:26] >> Yeah, so I first of all, I want to tell [01:28] you just a little bit about Heidi [01:30] Lavine. She is like a mythological uh [01:34] photojournalist. Uh she's been on the [01:36] scene here in Israel for many years, [01:38] four decades. And she's also been in [01:41] pretty much every modern war zone you [01:44] can think of. And everyone here who work [01:46] who's been working here as a journalist [01:48] long time knows Heidi Lavine. She is [01:50] someone that people, you know, see [01:52] everywhere you go. And she's at every uh [01:55] event. And uh on Friday she was at the [01:58] Olive Harvest which is an annual uh you [02:00] know an annual seasonal uh harvest for [02:03] Palestinian farmers. And it's a known [02:06] place where there's where there's [02:08] tension. Um it's it's been happening for [02:11] many years and every uh year when the [02:14] olives reach harvest the Palestinian [02:17] farmers go down and there's a mix of uh [02:19] of activists who go and protect the [02:22] farmers and there's photographers from [02:24] all the news outlets who go and take [02:26] pictures because it's very colorful and [02:28] then most of them expect that there's [02:31] going to be some kind of uh of clashes [02:33] or tensions between the local [02:35] Palestinian population and uh and these [02:38] settlers. And I'll talk about that in a [02:40] second. But uh Heidi on Friday, she was [02:43] there filming, taking pictures. Uh there [02:46] was a lot of media there in her in the [02:47] place where she was. And suddenly she [02:50] was set upon by a group of um masked uh [02:54] settlers. Um there's a video, it's a [02:57] quite a disturbing video where you can [03:00] see her in the background um being [03:03] really beaten up by uh by these young [03:05] men and she falls to the ground and [03:08] she's being kicked and uh you know the [03:10] first I heard about it was that suddenly [03:12] in all the journalist groups in the [03:14] there's a WhatsApp group for uh the [03:17] foreign press association, there's a [03:18] WhatsApp group for Israeli uh cameramen [03:21] and uh for Israeli photographers and [03:23] journalists and suddenly we start [03:25] getting messages uh saying that Heidi [03:27] Lavine's been attacked and that she's [03:29] been assaulted and people start sharing [03:31] the videos uh photos of her being taken [03:33] to the hospital and she was at first [03:35] taken to a hospital in Ramala and then [03:38] she was taken uh to Bellenton Hospital [03:40] in Petikva near Tel Aviv where she [03:43] underwent the surgery as you mentioned [03:45] and last night um from her hospital bed [03:49] she gave an interview um to channel 12 [03:52] news and she talks about the assault and [03:55] what happened and how she has been all [03:57] over the world and covered some of the [03:59] most dangerous conflicts in you know in [04:02] in Ukraine in Iraq and uh and and on [04:06] Friday she actually for the first time [04:08] ever really feared for her life. [04:10] >> Before we talk about responses and [04:13] fallouts, I I feel like there's one [04:15] thing which I kind of feel like might be [04:17] obvious to you or sort of baked into [04:19] your description. You know, you talked [04:21] about how [04:24] there activists there who are there to [04:26] protect the farmers and the photographer [04:28] and the media there and there's sort of [04:30] an expectation [04:32] that these Israeli extremists are going [04:37] to come and then you're talking about [04:39] the viciousness of this attack. C can [04:41] you just explain the why? No, I know. I [04:44] probably started like in the, you know, [04:46] in the middle of this uh of this uh [04:48] decades old conflict. You know, it's [04:50] been going on years, but you know, you [04:52] know, I mean, you know, there is the [04:54] West Bank. Uh Israelis or Jews refer to [04:56] as Judea and Samaria. It's an area that [04:59] is uh is under, you know, uh you know, [05:03] there's a there's a conflict going on [05:04] there. There's there's this dispute over [05:06] who the land belongs to. And um you know [05:10] obviously there's been peace plans and [05:12] all different things over the years that [05:14] have tried to sort out who who gets [05:16] what, how to divide the land up, who [05:18] lives where, who should be where. But in [05:20] the last few decades, there really [05:22] hasn't been any kind of uh process since [05:26] October 7th really. Um and since this [05:29] current government came into power, [05:31] there's been kind of a a growth in the [05:34] number of um Jewish Israelis uh people [05:37] the world calls them settlers moving [05:39] into Judea and Samaria into the West [05:41] Bank and in if in the past Israel's [05:44] policy was to settle the West Bank with [05:47] small towns like a few small towns and [05:50] that have grown obviously into into [05:52] small cities we know Erat and Offra and [05:55] those places that many people probably [05:58] Um, all around those are farmlands, [06:02] farmsteads, I guess you would call them, [06:04] little caravans and maybe they have a [06:05] flock of sheep and they take over a [06:08] hilltop and they put the caravans there. [06:10] Now, in order to uh man in order to find [06:13] manpower for these farms, a lot of the [06:16] places have kind of recruited these [06:18] young uh high school dropouts, young [06:21] people who have gone and moved into the [06:23] farms and they live on the land and [06:26] behind them there is a movement that [06:30] supports them and gives them the um you [06:32] know the equipment that they need to [06:35] kill the land and feed their sheep and [06:38] take their sheep. and that has kind of [06:40] put them in a direct path of conflict [06:43] with Palestinians that live in the same [06:46] area and do much of the same kind of [06:48] farming work. So that that has been a [06:51] kind of a growing clash in the West [06:53] Bank. And I I'll add one more thing that [06:55] is important to note that most people [06:57] don't know is that uh there is a rabbi [07:00] that many of these uh young men follow. [07:03] And um last week he issued a a [07:06] declaration saying that you know this is [07:09] Jewish land. Judea and Samaria is Jewish [07:11] land. Any Arabs that live on this land, [07:13] any Palestinians that live on this land [07:15] are there illegally. And because it is [07:17] Jewish land, it is okay for people for [07:20] these young men to go and take the [07:23] olives as if they were their own because [07:25] it belongs to them. And if Palestinians [07:27] get hurt in the process or other people [07:29] get hurt in the process, that's okay. [07:31] And [07:31] >> just and just to clarify, their rabbi [07:34] who's saying this is this is far from a [07:37] consensus position amongst you orthodox [07:41] rabbis in Israel, right? like we're we [07:43] hear from national religious rabbis that [07:45] are coming out and condemning these [07:47] attacks. [07:48] >> I just want to add one more caveat [07:49] because this is a rabbi. His name is [07:51] Rabbi Dov Leor. He was the former rabbi [07:54] of Kuret Alba, the chief rabbi of Kuret [07:56] Alba and he is the spiritual leader of [07:59] Itamar Beng who we're going to talk [08:00] about in a little bit. But he so he does [08:04] have sway. But you're right, as soon as [08:06] he made those comments, vast majority of [08:08] the rabbis in Israel condemned them and [08:11] said that shouldn't be, you know, that's [08:13] not the Jewish way and that shouldn't [08:15] happen. [08:15] >> We've been hearing that from the prime [08:18] minister makes that argument all the [08:21] time. Many of his representatives do. [08:23] And from where I sit and listening to [08:25] people here in America who are upset by [08:27] this, I'm always like, "Yeah, nobody's [08:30] talking about the 500,000 normal like [08:33] regular [08:35] Israeli settlers who are going about [08:36] their lives and would condemn this like [08:39] nobody's saying that's the issue. The [08:41] issue a lot of people here have is just [08:43] make it stop, right? Like every time the [08:45] prime minister says it's 200 people, [08:47] it's 500 people, it's it's not, you [08:49] know, it's not representative of half a [08:51] million people, I think the people here [08:52] are upset are like, okay, then like make [08:56] it stop, do something about it. There's [08:58] a perception that um the Israeli and I [09:01] don't even know if it's the military, [09:02] the police, some combination [09:05] are not being effective in stopping it. [09:08] And that's what I think is getting [09:09] people so upset. [09:10] >> I mean that's that is the question that [09:14] many people here are asking. I mean [09:15] that's the question that journalists [09:17] keep asking. You know what if Israel is [09:19] so effective Israeli military is so [09:21] effective in tracking down Palestinians [09:24] and tracking down Palestinian terrorists [09:26] and fighting Hamas and Hezbollah and [09:28] hitting Iran. But these like 100 kids in [09:31] Judea and Samaria in the West Bank they [09:34] uh you know they're running riot. But I [09:37] have to, you know, I have to add that [09:38] there there is this layer, you know, you [09:40] have to remember who is in power. Okay, [09:42] you look at Netanyahu and you and you [09:44] have Netanyahu. But beyond Natanyahu is [09:47] two very farright extremist uh uh [09:50] ministers who are both from the West [09:52] Bank or they both live in settlements in [09:55] the West Bank. And you have to look like [09:57] these young people didn't just show up [09:59] there and they're not like just gangs of [10:00] kids who showed up there. someone [10:03] enabled them to be there and someone is [10:05] supporting them and the truth is like [10:08] the the state has given in with in this [10:11] government has given them the ability to [10:13] be there. I mean inside the government [10:16] of Israel but Salmutri who is the [10:18] finance minister is also the minister um [10:22] of uh the West Bank or the minister of [10:23] Judea and Samaria inside the defense [10:25] ministry and he has enabled this to [10:28] happen or he hasn't stopped it from [10:30] happening. What is Ben's [10:34] role in [10:36] addressing this sort of unrest and [10:38] attacks that are in the uh are taking [10:42] place in the West Bank. He's the [10:43] national uh security internal security [10:46] minister. He runs the police in Israel [10:49] proper. Do they have is is do they have [10:51] a role in addressing attacks? The West [10:55] Bank is a gray area because it's not uh [10:58] under formally under Israeli [11:00] sovereignty, but obviously Israel [11:02] controls it. Um, under Israeli law, it's [11:06] seen as a a military entity and the [11:08] military is supposed to be responsible [11:10] for it. Um, but obviously you know what [11:13] happens when you have, as you said, [11:15] 500,000 Jewish people, Israelis living [11:18] there, Israeli citizens live there. You [11:20] have to have the police involved because [11:21] they can't be governed by the army, [11:24] right? So there's this kind of like I [11:26] guess it's like a like a hole in the [11:28] middle, right? That that how do you deal [11:31] with with that? And it's something I [11:33] think that Israel is taking too long to [11:36] grapple with. like this has been going [11:38] on for a long time and it hasn't been [11:39] dealt with and it hasn't been addressed. [11:42] The I'm talking about the you know [11:43] philosophical question who deals with [11:45] it. We're dealing with a a swath of land [11:48] that is um that is uh is not annexed by [11:52] Israel. It's not under Israeli [11:53] sovereignty. It's not under Israeli law. [11:56] But there's two populations that live [11:57] there. One population that's kind of [11:59] considered the enemy population and one [12:01] population that are citizens of Israel. [12:04] So how do do you do it? Do the police [12:06] deal with it? Does the army deal with [12:08] it? Under whose authority is it? I mean, [12:10] there was until now a civil [12:12] administration which is part of the army [12:15] that dealt with civilian matters in the [12:17] West Bank. So, you know, the question of [12:19] can I have a permit to build in my [12:21] house, you would have to go to the civil [12:23] administration and get a permit. and uh [12:26] you know with the strength of the [12:28] settler movement or they call it the [12:29] settler enterprise now in the government [12:33] they have been trying to change those [12:34] things slowly slowly [12:36] >> so first of all before we wrap up I want [12:38] to get into two let's let's finally get [12:40] to the election which is not necessarily [12:42] the the most important thing in this you [12:45] know horrific incident that happened but [12:48] thinking about it is this going to be an [12:51] election issue like we see some Israeli [12:54] officials have come out and condemned it [12:58] in strong terms. We saw the Israeli [13:00] ambassador to the United States was on [13:02] CNN and he said Ben Greer will not have [13:06] the post he has now if the Netanyahu [13:09] government is elected. They they ruled [13:12] out that he would be defense minister. [13:14] And I guess I'm wondering, is this for [13:17] uh public opinion internationally or are [13:22] they having a conversation with Israeli [13:24] voters? [13:24] >> Well, I mean, first I want to say that, [13:26] you know, as I said, this has been going [13:27] on for many years and in the last 3 [13:30] years, many um there's been many [13:32] Palestinians, you know, farmers, [13:34] ordinary Palestinian citizens that have [13:36] been attacked by these settlers. There's [13:38] been violent incidences. Um no one talks [13:41] about I mean, they they're talked about, [13:42] but they don't get as much attention. [13:44] When it's a Washington Post uh female [13:47] Washington Post correspondent and Heidi [13:50] Lavine, who is, you know, a well-known [13:51] figure, uh then it gets a lot of [13:53] attention. Um which in a way it it means [13:56] that it's kind of being forced into the [13:58] agenda and people have to talk about it. [14:01] Natanyahu had to give a give a [14:04] statement. Interestingly, he didn't [14:05] release his statement in Hebrew. His [14:07] statement was only in English. But the [14:09] opposition parties, the ones who were [14:11] trying to replace Netanyahu, they came [14:14] out with statements that were very [14:16] strong. Even even um politicians on the [14:20] right wing of the opposition. So you [14:23] know Naftdali Bennett, former Prime [14:25] Minister Napa Bennett, who was used to [14:27] be the head of the Yesesha Council, [14:29] which is the council that you know, the [14:31] umbrella council for the settlements, he [14:33] came out and he called it Jewish [14:34] terrorism. uh Avdor Lieberman, he came [14:38] out against it. Now, it this is not [14:40] going to sway the election either way, [14:42] but if Netanyahu's [14:44] government remains, then we might expect [14:47] more sanctions from more countries [14:49] against the settlements and individual [14:51] settlers. [14:52] >> So, last question before we wrap up. You [14:54] know, we've talked here about um in some [14:57] past episodes about how the opposition [15:01] on many issues is just as hawkish, if [15:05] not more hawkish, depending on the [15:07] issue, than the current Netanyahu [15:09] government, or at least Netanyahu [15:10] himself. On the very narrow specific [15:13] issue of these sort of um extremist [15:16] attacks against Palestinian farmers and [15:19] little Palestinian villages, you [15:22] mentioned how the opposition leaders are [15:24] you know, taking some pretty um strong [15:27] rhetorical [15:29] steps to address them now during the [15:31] campaign. Is this an issue where there [15:34] is a stark difference between the [15:36] Netanyahu government and the potential [15:39] opposition government? Is this a place [15:41] where we'd expect to see, [15:42] >> you know, at at a minimum different [15:44] rhetoric, but also um different action [15:47] or different policy? Yeah, because you [15:49] know this government um you know which [15:52] is heavily influenced by Batal Smutric [15:55] and Ital Beng they see settling the West [16:00] Bank and Judea and Samaria as what as [16:02] their ultimate goal. They want to have [16:04] this creeping annexation that will [16:06] eventually mean it has to become part of [16:08] Israel. There's no way around it. And if [16:10] you have, you know, millions of of [16:12] Israelis living there, then you're going [16:13] to have to um you're going to have to [16:16] eventually put it under sovereign [16:18] Israeli law and therefore it becomes uh [16:20] it becomes annexed or becomes part of [16:22] Israeli sovereign territory. And then [16:25] you have the other side who are seeing [16:27] now that how dangerous this is for [16:30] Israel. Not because you know they don't [16:33] agree that it shouldn't be Israeli [16:35] territory. Some of them do. I mean, [16:36] Napali Bennett and Avdor Lieberman do [16:38] think that they say, you know, maybe we [16:40] should settle Judea and Samaria, but [16:42] let's do it in an organized way. Let's [16:43] not just send a bunch of kids to live on [16:46] on a hillside in a farm and let them [16:48] have uh, you know, let them have free [16:50] reign to go down into the valley and and [16:52] beat up journalists. And I think that [16:54] that's the main point that there just [16:56] doesn't seem to be any law and order. I [16:58] I call it the wild west bank because it [17:01] really reminds me of when, you know, in [17:04] when America was like settled and people [17:06] moved out west. I mean, it's beautiful [17:08] landscape. It's incredible. It's open. [17:11] It's free. There's no big cities there. [17:13] And you can just pick a hilltop, but you [17:16] can say, "I'm I'm going to live here [17:17] free from anyone telling me what to do, [17:20] and I'm just going to put my caravan [17:22] here, and I'm I've got this amazing [17:24] view." And it's and it's, you know, it's [17:26] the biblical homeland. I mean that we [17:27] didn't talk about the, you know, this [17:29] religious element that it's the land [17:31] that was, you know, the Jews, the these, [17:34] you know, ultra religious Jews. They [17:37] believe it was the land that was given [17:38] to them by God and that it's spiritual. [17:40] They they have to be there. [17:42] >> Okay, we're going to close on that note. [17:45] Plenty more to discuss and I'm sure [17:46] we'll get get at it in uh future [17:48] episodes as we keep moving along toward [17:50] election day and and the coalition [17:52] building to follow. But for today, [17:54] that's that's going to be it. Thank you [17:56] to our producer Maya Rackov. Please make [17:59] sure to join us tomorrow for the next [18:01] episode of Waiting for 61. And don't [18:03] forget to send your questions into [18:05] waiting for61 atjta.org. [18:14] [music]
