Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for 61, JTA's Israel [00:05] election podcast, where we break down [00:07] the fundamentals of Israel's 2026 [00:09] elections, the politics, the players, [00:11] and what's at stake as the country heads [00:13] to the polls. I'm Amy Eden, CEO and [00:16] executive editor of 70 Faces Media, the [00:18] organization behind the Jewish [00:19] Telegraphic Agency. [00:20] >> And I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:23] correspondent. Today marks 12 days until [00:26] Israelis go to the polls. One note [00:29] before we begin. Every Friday we'll be [00:31] answering questions from you, our [00:33] listeners. So if something sparks your [00:35] curiosity or there's an aspect of [00:36] Israeli politics you'd like us to [00:38] explain, send us your questions to [00:41] waiting [music] for61 at jta.org. [00:44] Okay, let's get into it. Today we're [00:46] going to talk about an issue that has [00:48] really heated up since October 7th and [00:52] that's the debate on whether men should [00:55] be required to serve it in the military. [00:58] Before we kind of dive into that [01:00] conversation about how it's playing out, [01:02] Ruth, can you just ground us a little [01:04] bit in the kind of the just give our [01:06] listeners like the quick cheat sheet [01:08] background? I mean it really has come to [01:11] the four in the last three years but it [01:12] really is a debate that's been going on [01:14] for many many many years. I mean as long [01:16] as I have been a reporter here this has [01:18] been something that's discussed. I mean [01:20] it's really reached a tipping point um [01:22] in the last 3 years because of October [01:25] 7th and the war and uh you know the [01:28] army's reported massive manpower [01:30] shortages. many Israelis who do serve in [01:33] the army have done hundreds of days of [01:35] midowim that's reserve duty um in the [01:38] Israeli army. So, it's really become [01:40] like a hot button issue, but it's also [01:43] it's also a factor of something that's [01:45] that's been happening progressively over [01:48] the last uh decade or so where there [01:51] hasn't been, you know, a framework for [01:54] drafting the ultra orthodox and and now [01:56] I'll go back to the founding of the [01:58] state of Israel. When Israel was created [02:01] in 1948, the prime minister then David [02:04] Bengurian made a deal or or agreed to de [02:08] defer the military service of around 400 [02:11] yeshiva students. I mean, and the goal [02:14] with that was to just help Jewish life [02:16] rebuild itself after the Holocaust. And [02:20] obviously, you know, that that [02:23] arrangement was supposed to be limited. [02:25] And in the ensuing years um the [02:28] population of the ultra orthodox the [02:30] karedi community has grown exponently [02:34] and instead of 400 you have thousands [02:37] today and it's got to a point where [02:40] these legal provisions for the [02:42] ultraorththodox shifted and changed over [02:45] the years when they got to the early [02:47] 2000s. um one law was passed to kind of [02:51] um you know facilitate this exemption [02:54] and uh and then in 2012 or around 2012 [02:58] the Supreme Court decided that it just [03:01] wasn't working anymore that it wasn't [03:03] constitutional that it wasn't there [03:05] wasn't equality in the fact that some of [03:08] the population served in the army or [03:10] were required to serve in the army under [03:12] mand under the mandatory law and some of [03:14] the population remained exempt and it's [03:17] basically since then that successive [03:20] governments of Israel have struggled to [03:22] create a law that on the one hand [03:25] satisfies the Supreme Court and the [03:27] concept of equality in Israeli society [03:30] and satisfies the ultraorththodox and [03:32] their demands um not to serve or at [03:35] least have a certain number of their [03:37] young men not serving in the army. [03:40] >> I feel like this issue, like you said, [03:41] the issue's been out there for a while. [03:44] It's always felt to me that people don't [03:49] like people outside the Kar community, [03:51] they don't like it, right? It's like [03:53] never always feels wrong that they're [03:55] getting this mass exemption. But only [03:57] since October 7th when I'm talking to [03:59] like my Israeli family members, [04:01] including ones on the right wing, is now [04:03] people seem angry about it. Right. Like [04:06] people, it used to be like, "Yeah, [04:08] that's not a nice thing. It's not." But [04:09] there wasn't an anger. I feel like [04:13] people used to say, "Oh, deep down, do [04:15] they even really want the curadium [04:16] because it's going to pose all sorts of [04:17] problems, etc." But now you have like [04:19] the Israeli military leaders saying, "We [04:22] need more troops." [04:25] >> Yeah. No, it's two two factors have [04:27] come, you know, to to clash. The the [04:30] issue wasn't solved. It was put off and [04:32] put off and put off and put off because [04:33] no one could come to an agreement, which [04:35] has happened with many issues in in this [04:37] country, by the way, not just the the [04:39] ultra orthodox. And I I'm sure that [04:41] we'll talk about it in in in future [04:44] episodes, but there's many issues that [04:45] no decision was made. This problem went [04:48] on and on and on. And then it reached a [04:50] point where it couldn't continue because [04:53] the army is in such desperate need of of [04:56] more manpower or even woman power [04:58] because I'll say that because of the [05:00] shortage of manpower, they've allowed [05:02] more women to be in combat units and [05:04] combat units that were off limits to [05:06] women. more and more women have gone in [05:08] and so um you know we've now reached [05:10] this point where there is no way to [05:13] exempt the ultraorththodox. So on both [05:16] sides it's kind of become extreme. [05:18] >> So you know Ruth I I think it would be [05:20] helpful before we wrap up I think there [05:23] are two two things I want to hit. First [05:25] of all, let's just talk about the [05:28] resistance. Like we kind of assume we [05:30] kind of talked about it as a given that [05:32] you know Kaidans have this mass [05:34] exemption and that you know and and you [05:36] know if you think about the protests [05:39] against the court reform that left and [05:43] some Israelis were coming out on mass [05:46] tens of thousands of people every you [05:47] know you protesting and blocking [05:50] streets. We've seen that on the other [05:53] side of the spectrum with the like when [05:56] there's been movement to push the draft [05:59] issue. I think for many American Jewish [06:03] listeners and other listeners around the [06:04] world, I'm not sure it's so obvious the [06:06] extent of that um you know that that [06:09] resistance, you know, and I I think [06:11] there's a sort of there's this idea that [06:13] like if you have more people studying [06:15] yeshiva and learning Torah that there's [06:16] a certain like halo [06:18] >> spiritual [06:19] >> Yeah. No, it's right that protects the [06:21] country. And I'm not saying that's not [06:23] something that people believe, but I'm [06:25] saying like if you if you start to even [06:28] scratch a little bit beneath the surface [06:29] and you see what people are like in the [06:31] community are saying, there's a [06:33] fundamental fear that by going into the [06:36] military, [06:38] they're going to be put into an [06:39] environment that is the antithesis of [06:42] the the religious environment that they [06:44] should be living in. It's going to be [06:45] hard to keep Shabbat. it's going to hard [06:48] to keep mitzvah. You're going to have [06:50] women, you know, what's the situation [06:52] with women in the military? So, am I [06:55] right to say that that's really the [06:56] issue? [06:57] >> Yeah, th those are the two issues. I [06:58] mean, really, that they believe that [07:00] Torah study um is their way of [07:02] contributing to the well-being of the [07:04] country. That's on one level. And on the [07:07] other level, exactly what you said. [07:08] They're worried that it's going to uh [07:10] expose uh their young men or their sons [07:13] to a way of life that will contradict um [07:17] everything that they've been brought up [07:19] with. And it's uh you know I mean the [07:21] ultra orthodox the karedim are very [07:23] resistant to change. They don't like the [07:26] word change. They don't like that [07:28] concept. So I think that that those are [07:30] the two things that you you summed it up [07:32] very well. But I think there is one more [07:34] element that that people don't think [07:36] about and you know I thought about this [07:38] when I've seen these big protests and [07:41] they're very angry and you know if it [07:43] impacts everyone's lives here because [07:45] they block the roads you can't go [07:47] certain areas you know you know you stay [07:49] away when the karedim are protesting so [07:51] I I think that um you know in contrast [07:55] to um secular Israelis that are kind of [07:58] raised on this idea that they are going [08:00] to the army when they're 18 and there's [08:02] no choice choice. That's what they're [08:04] doing. You go to school, you go to high [08:06] school, you finish at 18, you go to the [08:09] army, and then you go trekking in South [08:11] in South America, right? With the [08:14] ultraorththodox, they are brought up in [08:16] a very different trajectory. So for [08:18] them, it's like they cannot even [08:21] consider this concept that they would [08:22] have to go to the army. And that's why [08:24] it feels so foreign to them. They're not [08:27] told all through their high school years [08:28] that going to the army is an amazing [08:31] thing and they're protecting the [08:32] country. No, they're not told that. [08:34] They're told that they have to be a a [08:36] Torah scholar and that's what makes them [08:38] valuable and that's what makes them [08:40] worthwhile in their society. So, it's [08:43] really all about education at the end of [08:45] the day. And until that education is [08:48] changed from when they're in in when [08:50] they're in kindergarten, then then that [08:52] I don't think that there is much hope to [08:56] even to change the law. I mean, they can [08:59] change the law, but [09:00] >> it's two different things. You you can [09:02] you can make any law you want. It [09:04] doesn't mean that it's going to take [09:05] hold. Yeah. I I think I've really [09:08] struggled on a logic level to make sense [09:11] of the current Netanyahu coalition post [09:14] October 7th because of this issue, [09:16] right? You have you sort of have the [09:18] >> Ben [09:20] and Smootrich, the two far-right leaders [09:22] of you know in the in the government and [09:25] you have we could really pushing a [09:28] pretty aggressive multiffront [09:31] war that and doing it for a long period [09:34] of time which is quite unique in [09:36] Israel's history to kind of a break from [09:38] the doctrine of shorter wars and it puts [09:41] a lot of pressure on the system [09:44] and at the same time then you have this [09:46] other component, the other key component [09:48] of this coalition to get over 60, you to [09:50] get to 61 seat, you have the two parties [09:53] and they're and it's kind of like [09:54] they're saying, "Yeah, so you can have [09:56] your war, but like we're not going to [09:58] get drafted." So it's like it's like [10:01] it's it's like a mathematical equation [10:03] that doesn't quite add up. [10:06] >> No, I think that that's what accounts [10:07] for the anger amongst the people that [10:10] you that you speak to here that they [10:12] feel like they've been pushed into this [10:13] war. And I mean even you know even has [10:17] contributed I think to the to the slight [10:21] drop of support for but Salmutric whose [10:24] party represents a segment of the [10:26] population that is religious and Zionist [10:29] and many many of his supporters or many [10:31] many of his parties supporters are the [10:34] ones who are serving in the army for [10:35] hundreds of days. So, you know, for [10:38] them, they're really struggling with [10:39] that idea that the people that they [10:41] voted for, the government that they [10:43] supported, um, is pushing them to war, [10:46] but not, you know, but they're not [10:47] sharing the burden. [10:49] >> Yeah. And, and I'll just want to say two [10:51] quick things before we wrap up. one you [10:53] mentioned, you know, a hundredth days [10:55] and you kind of alluded to at the [10:56] beginning just in case people don't [10:58] know, I want to make clear, you know, [10:59] Israel has its standing army, but it [11:03] really because it's a small country when [11:05] it's in a time of war really is [11:07] depending on a much wider system of [11:09] reserve duty. So people serve there [11:11] about three years, right? And then they [11:13] go off and they live their lives. But [11:14] you have to do tours of duty as reserve [11:17] milim. And now you're having people [11:19] because the war is going on and the you [11:22] people are doing you know four, five, [11:24] six tours of duty in millim and that [11:27] means you know you're running a business [11:28] you have to leave. You're doing whatever [11:30] in your life you have to leave. So just [11:32] want our audience to understand why this [11:34] is such a you know part of what makes [11:37] this such a real issue. And and I guess [11:39] the last thing I want to end on is [11:40] something you alluded to. If the [11:43] Netanyahu block loses, right, and we see [11:46] Likood seats go down, maybe we'll see [11:48] Smudge seats go down. Um, is it fair to [11:51] say that a part of that is going to be [11:55] you have some very right-wing voters who [11:59] would be very happy to have a right-wing [12:01] government but are so mad about this [12:03] issue and the fact that Lucid has [12:06] basically agreed to try to maintain the [12:09] exemptions that you are actually going [12:11] to have people who are going to vote for [12:13] one of the anti-Netanyahu parties [12:15] because they're that upset. I'm not sure [12:18] that people will like turn against this [12:21] block because of that issue, but they [12:23] might vote for one of the unaffiliated [12:26] parties. There's two unaffiliated Jewish [12:29] parties because also the Arab parties [12:31] for the Arab uh um sector are not [12:33] affiliated with either block, but [12:35] there's two parties. There's one led by [12:37] Offer Winter, which is a right-wing [12:39] party. It's not affiliated, but they are [12:41] also very very adamant about this issue [12:44] of the Karedi draft. They believe that [12:47] they should be drafted except for maybe [12:49] a few exemptions of real like Torah [12:51] scholars and there is a party dedicated [12:55] exactly to this issue. They are called [12:56] the miluimnikim the reservists. Some of [12:59] the polls show that they are passing you [13:02] know the threshold and they are getting [13:04] enough seats to go into the Knesset and [13:06] some of the polls show that they're not. [13:08] So there's this argument. There's people [13:10] who say, "I would like to vote for one [13:12] of those two parties, but if they're not [13:14] going to get into the Knesset, then my [13:16] vote is wasted." I think we discussed [13:18] this in the first episode that if the [13:20] party doesn't pass even by one vote, by [13:23] one vote the threshold, the 3.25%. [13:26] Then all the votes get thrown into the [13:28] garbage. [13:29] >> And the reser party is also inherently a [13:32] right-wing party. [13:33] >> Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. [13:35] >> Okay, that's it for today. Thank you to [13:38] our producer, Maya Rackov. Please make [13:40] sure to join us tomorrow for the next [13:42] episode of Waiting for 61. And don't [13:44] forget to send your questions to waiting [13:46] for61 atjta.org. [13:56] [music]
