Transcript [00:04] [music] [00:17] After a welldeserved summer break, [00:20] members of the European Parliament are [00:23] returning to Brussels this week with a [00:26] full agenda. The next four months will [00:29] be shaped by the current Irish [00:32] presidency [00:33] which began in July and will end [00:38] of December. Israel is very high on this [00:43] Irish agenda [00:44] with new calls to isolate Israel [00:48] diplomatically and economically by [00:51] banning trade with Israel goods from the [00:55] dispute territories and even suspending [01:00] the AUIsrael association agreement to [01:04] discuss these initiatives of the Irish [01:08] presidency. [01:09] We are joining we are joined here in the [01:12] European Parliament by Czech member of [01:15] the European Parliament Thomas. [01:18] >> Thank you very much for your invitation. [01:20] >> My pleasure. And European Coalition for [01:22] Israel founding director Thomas Sandel. [01:26] Thanks for joining me. My name is Yosil [01:28] Lovich and welcome to the European [01:32] Report. Let me start with you Thomas [01:35] Sandell. Uh this week's marks the 25th [01:39] anniversary of the activities of your [01:43] organization [01:44] uh European Coalition for Israel and [01:47] thanks to ECI we have been able to [01:50] produce uh these programs for the last [01:54] uh 15 years. this talk show uh has [01:58] become a regular feature uh in the [02:02] activities of your organization on the [02:05] sideline of the European Parliament here [02:08] in Brussels. Can you give us uh a brief [02:12] overview of what is ECI, [02:17] why it was founded and what has been the [02:20] achievement over the last 25 years. [02:23] >> Thank you. Thank you Yosi for um [02:27] recognizing the 20 25 years. Um we have [02:31] to remember that 25 years ago that was [02:34] the time of the second inifada. It was [02:36] also the first time after the second [02:39] world war when there was a rise a [02:42] resurgence of anti-semitism in in [02:44] Europe. So the timing was ripe. I was [02:48] then an accredited journalist to the [02:50] European Union. Uh but I realized that [02:53] there was nobody speaking up for the [02:55] Jewish people or or the state of of [02:57] Israel. Um I thought and I still think [03:01] today that it's important that this is [03:03] not only an issue for the state of [03:05] Israel or for the Jewish people but to [03:08] quote Elie Visil for all the others. So [03:11] you know those of us who are Europeans [03:14] um many of us Christians but but uh have [03:17] a great appreciation for the Jewish [03:19] people their contributions to European [03:22] uh civilization and the state of Israel [03:24] today. So over 25 years I think this is [03:29] as you mentioned a good expression of [03:32] what we have achieved. The fact that we [03:33] are now a regular part of the activities [03:36] in the European Parliament through this [03:39] monthly talk show through our annual [03:41] annual policy conference and through [03:44] numerous meetings uh every week here in [03:47] the corridors. This is something that [03:50] was lacking 25 years ago and even more [03:53] catastrophically so in the 1930s. [03:56] Uh so we feel very good at at the uh the [04:01] fact that there is such a coalition [04:04] today. Let me mention very briefly three [04:07] u achievements if I may use that word uh [04:11] or how we have left our mark on on the [04:14] European institutions and other [04:16] institutions. [04:17] In 2005, we took an initiative to [04:21] commemorate the victims of the Holocaust [04:24] by organizing uh a small commemoration. [04:27] The first commemoration we did this for [04:29] 5 years later on also with Jewish [04:32] organization. Gradually this became an [04:36] um institutionalized event hosted by [04:38] >> official event [04:39] >> official event hosted by the president [04:42] of of the European Parliament [04:44] >> uh at the United Nations level. And this [04:47] is something which is very timely today [04:50] uh just a few weeks uh away from the [04:52] 81st session of the UN General Assembly, [04:56] the general debate. Um normally the [05:00] proceedings would start on a Monday, [05:02] Monday 21st of September. They start on [05:06] a Tuesday because the Monday is Yam [05:09] Kipur. [05:10] >> And in 2014, we we took this initiative. [05:15] We explained to the UN officials and and [05:19] to the ambassadors that also the Jewish [05:22] people should have their holiest day in [05:25] the calendar recognized. And in 2016, so [05:29] 10 years ago, it happened for the first [05:31] time. And this is also nice to look [05:33] back, you know, when when I will be at [05:36] at the UN General Assembly that week [05:38] that the whole world is pausing because [05:41] it's yum kipur. in in the past no one [05:44] had any idea why the Israelis were not [05:46] there. So these are just some small ways [05:49] in which I believe we have contributed [05:52] and uh of course your role is even more [05:55] important today with when we see the the [05:57] the state and the tense tension of [06:01] between Israel and the EU. So it's even [06:04] more important than before. [06:05] >> Sadly so. [06:08] MP is Dekovski. Uh you were elected to [06:11] the European Parliament in 2015 14 sorry [06:15] >> 14 [06:16] >> uh with your party KDU CSL which is part [06:20] of the European People's Party the [06:23] largest political group in the European [06:25] Parliament. you are now an active member [06:28] uh with uh special focus on AUI Israel [06:32] relations among many other many other uh [06:36] important uh uh topics. What is your [06:39] assessment today of AUI Israel relations [06:43] and especially during this Irish [06:46] presidency? We we we just spoke about [06:49] the uh [06:52] isolating Israel diplomatically and [06:55] economically. Uh yeah, [06:57] >> there is two different way how to work [07:01] with Israel and how to cooperate with [07:03] Israel. Czech Republic's is opposite of [07:08] the Irish presidency because we have it [07:11] another experience with Israel. We are [07:14] very close friends. You know that thanks [07:17] to Czech or Czechoslovak weapons, there [07:20] were first weapons what uh someone send [07:24] it to to the state Israel. It was Aia [07:28] aircrafts and it was the [07:29] >> independence day during the [07:31] >> during the uh independence war in 1946 [07:36] in my city in Herodit Kra West were [07:40] trained first pilots [07:43] >> 30 of pilots of Israel army also uh we [07:46] have it another view of Israel Israel [07:51] European relationship and of course in [07:55] in Israel There is many uh anti- in [08:00] Ireland there is many anti-Israel [08:03] activists [08:05] especially the president current [08:07] president she's communist she has it the [08:10] narrative very very very anti-Israel [08:14] oriented and she promoted many um [08:18] narratives about Israel as a traitor and [08:22] uh of course she influenced now the [08:25] politicians and politics to ban Israel [08:28] from any cooperation. [08:31] But thanks God there is many countries [08:34] like uh Czech Republic, uh Slovak, [08:38] Hungary, Slovenia and others who wants [08:42] to have it closer relationship [08:44] >> central and eastern Europe. [08:46] >> Yeah, that's true. That's a big [08:47] difference. That's true. It's big [08:48] difference and uh I have to say that uh [08:52] really in many western European [08:54] countries they are I cannot say anti- [08:59] Jewish but anti-Israel oriented parties [09:04] >> and uh this is how they behave. They can [09:07] ban any [snorts] relationship or any [09:10] cooperation with Israel. they are much [09:12] more supporting you know that uh Spain [09:16] officially supported um Hamas or [09:20] anti-Israel forces also uh we have to [09:24] say that in this moment we are on the [09:26] side of the democracy we are on on the [09:29] side of the two-state solution we would [09:33] like to continue uh in the dialogue [09:37] between the Palestine and Israel and to [09:40] find a really any solution what will [09:44] make the peace between Palestine and [09:46] Israel? [09:47] >> And do you think that the European [09:50] Parliament and the European Union in [09:52] general are friendly places for Israel [09:57] and the Jewish people? [09:59] >> I have to say that if you go to the [10:02] Czech Republic to the Prague is most [10:05] pro-Jewish and pro-Israel oriented city. [10:09] The people are safe. We don't have it [10:11] here any attacks of Israeli or Jewish [10:15] people and we are very our intelligences [10:19] take care about uh Jewish community in [10:22] the in Czech Republic and we are [10:25] rebuilding and financing from EU found [10:28] the the synagogues and Jewish uh [10:32] cemeteries and all the the [10:36] movement what are what are pro-Jewish [10:39] oriented that we would like to find and [10:42] recognize uh holocaust or uh another [10:46] things what are [10:49] uh very well uh known from 20th century [10:52] but in this moment we have to say that [10:56] uh Israel was in the war in Iran with [10:59] Iran the the [11:03] current uh situation in Israel security [11:06] situation it's much more difficult it's [11:08] not only about Hamas, about his balac, [11:11] but there is also big Iran threats and [11:15] this is what you have to take together [11:18] and see the situation how is it also [11:21] Israel it's in permanent war you have to [11:25] make the people secure I think it's not [11:28] really easy to say who is victim and who [11:31] is traitor and who is attacker and um [11:36] this is why we don't want to really [11:40] interrupt our good relationship with [11:42] Israel [11:43] >> and that's what Europe should understand [11:46] also Thomas Sandell uh considering your [11:50] perspective of more than 25 years u uh [11:54] experience I would like to ask you the [11:57] same question uh is Europe still a [12:01] friend of Israel and can Israel survive [12:05] uh the current AU Irish presidency when [12:10] we see that the country is pushing with [12:14] other member state like Spain to isolate [12:18] Israel uh in Europe. [12:21] >> Well, if there's one thing I know for [12:23] sure that is that the Jewish people will [12:26] survive, the state of Israel will [12:28] survive. Um there's no no people with [12:31] the same resilience historically like [12:34] the Jewish people. So uh that's [12:36] something we don't have to worry about. [12:39] We should be concerned perhaps even more [12:41] so for the sake of our EU member states, [12:44] our native countries to the extent that [12:47] they choose to to boycott or or [12:51] disrespect the Jewish state. uh looking [12:55] looking at the last 25 years and you'll [12:57] see you have even a longer experience I [12:59] think as a journalist but it's been ups [13:02] and downs and um [13:06] I think by now we can also identify [13:09] which are the problematic countries [13:11] >> thanks to our EU vote ranking we can [13:14] also look politically you know uh as as [13:19] we noticed in our latest ranking that [13:22] that tend to be those in the center and [13:24] the right tend to be more sympathetic [13:26] towards Israel. Sadly, today it has [13:30] become a a polarizing issue where those [13:33] on the left and today who make a common [13:36] interest with the with the Muslim [13:38] population or I should say Islamic [13:41] movements have become a a significant uh [13:44] voting block. The good thing is that [13:47] things can change. So you take a country [13:50] like Slovenia which was mentioned um a [13:53] moment ago uh which until very recently [13:57] was uh hysterically anti-Israel together [14:01] with Spain and and Ireland. Uh [14:05] personally, I think that Spain is on the [14:07] brink of changing course. I think in the [14:10] next election we will see a much more uh [14:13] exactly next year a much more [14:15] sympathetic uh government towards [14:17] towards Israel. Um, as for Ireland, I [14:21] have a less hope because it seems that [14:24] Irish identity, regardless of political [14:27] affiliation, tend to be very critical of [14:30] Israel. At the same time, we we have to [14:33] look at the the the negative side. You [14:36] take a country like the Netherlands, [14:38] they were often quoted as being one of [14:41] the best friends of the Jewish people of [14:43] of and of Israel. And today we have seen [14:47] a a a dramatic shift to the to the other [14:52] side where as we know there is [14:55] legislation in place to ban u even [14:59] individual Dutch people from buying uh [15:03] Israeli products from the disputed [15:05] territories. So um this is something [15:08] which is uh changing over time. But one [15:11] thing I know for sure and that is that [15:14] Europe cannot do without Israel. [15:18] >> MEP Deikovski I mentioned in my [15:20] introduction that the Irish presidency [15:24] in its uh initiatives to isolate Israel [15:27] by suspending the AUI Israel association [15:30] agreement banning products from the [15:33] disputed territories. What is your [15:36] assessment as to how successful Ireland [15:40] [snorts] [15:41] and other enemies of the Jewish uh state [15:45] in the EU will uh will be during the [15:48] next four months of the Irish uh [15:51] presidency? Do you think they will [15:54] succeed in pushing their initiatives? [15:57] >> I'm sure that they will not succeed. uh [16:00] I I am sure that there is a lot of [16:03] countries who doesn't uh support it as [16:06] all and I think in this moment it's only [16:09] the wish it's a proclamation some of uh [16:13] some of Irish politicians there is part [16:16] of the pressure to Israel to find any [16:19] solution because we need stable solution [16:22] for two countries and I think it's [16:25] absolutely necessary really to have it [16:28] uh any solution [16:30] which will not be for next 2 3 years but [16:34] what will be for long time and we have [16:37] to stop the conflicts because the [16:38] massacre from the October 203 [16:44] 22 was really so huge and from this [16:48] moment we have to remember that it's [16:51] never will happen for the future and we [16:54] have to prevent it and uh I am sure that [16:59] uh really make uh any declaration like [17:04] uh some uh Irish politicians. It's not [17:07] the way how to do it. We need more to [17:12] see both side and really [17:16] dialogue to make the the the things much [17:19] more calm and really be very open to [17:23] have it dialogue between EU and Israel. [17:26] And an additional question uh now we [17:29] know that Victor Orban is no more uh no [17:33] longer prime minister of Hungary uh will [17:38] Czecha your country take this place as [17:41] Europe's best friends of Israel in the [17:43] EU and will it block any anti-Israel [17:47] initiative? I can not correct you but [17:52] the best friends for all time it was not [17:55] Victor Orban but it was Czech Republic [17:57] and it can be really the government [18:00] socialist communist or or uh nationalist [18:04] and everyone will support it Israel in [18:07] this moment and no one will will change [18:10] it only in Czecha you have it support of [18:13] Israel 91% [18:15] in uh in Hungary was only 84 for also [18:19] the best friends for long time in [18:22] European Union is the Czech Republic and [18:25] second things and it's a little bit uh [18:28] choke but second things what is it much [18:31] more serious is that the Czech Republic [18:34] is um doing this bridges between Israel [18:38] and other European country and many [18:41] times the European countries follow us [18:44] in Israel politics because they know [18:48] that uh they know that we have it very [18:51] close connection and we are working in [18:54] many issue together and uh uh this is [18:58] why it's really very important to [19:00] continue and I am absolutely sure that [19:03] we will find the the stable coalition [19:09] to find the dialogue between Israel and [19:12] the EU. [19:14] Now a question to both of you Thomas [19:17] Sandel and MEP is Dekovski. Uh on August [19:20] in August AU high representative Kayak [19:24] Kalas issued a statement condemning [19:28] Israel is Israeli construction in the [19:31] so-called E1 corridor outside of East [19:35] Jerusalem. in fact between Jerusalem and [19:38] Malle Adamim in Judea uh the thoughts of [19:42] the West Bank but the foreign ministers [19:46] were not able to reach uh the required [19:50] unanimity [19:51] for an alt-right AU condemnation because [19:55] Slovenia new prime minister Janice Jansa [19:59] uh who is strongly pro- Israel [20:03] put his veto to this decision. What are [20:06] your thoughts on this uh do you think [20:09] that Israel have a right to build uh in [20:13] this a A1 corridor and what is your [20:17] comment on the veto uh put by Prime [20:20] Minister Jansa? First Thomas Sandel. [20:24] >> Yes. uh credit [clears throat] to to [20:26] whom credit is due and in this case to [20:29] uh prime minister Jansza but I agree uh [20:32] to Czecha historically and I and I think [20:35] what is unique with Czecha is as you say [20:37] it's irrespective of political [20:40] persuasion [20:41] u coming back to your your question [20:44] about the EU uh E1 corridor uh if we [20:48] look at the Oslo Accords this is part of [20:50] territory C meaning that Israel has the [20:54] all sovereignty planning and sooning [20:57] zoning rights. So there should be no [20:59] question as to what what Israel can do. [21:02] Um secondly this is um primarily apart [21:07] from being a international law issue [21:09] it's also [21:11] um a security issue. So we have to [21:15] remember post October 7, [clears throat] [21:19] the state of Israel, the citizens of [21:21] Israel will never again allow for um [21:27] a hostile [21:30] government, a hostile authority to [21:32] establish itself in a way that would [21:35] threaten the security in this case of of [21:38] Jerusalem, but also of um um the the [21:43] Bengory airport and and all the way to [21:46] Jericho. So I think this is a necessity [21:49] for Israel to really provide security [21:52] for its uh citizens. Um, I would change [21:57] around the question and say that if the [21:59] European Union [22:01] is really constructive and wants to [22:04] contribute to sustainable peace, they [22:08] should do two things uh which already [22:11] has been agreed first in the through a [22:14] UN resolution that needs to disarm. The [22:18] same is true uh for Hamas in Gaza. Uh [22:22] thirdly, that the Palestinian society [22:26] needs to be dradicalized and it needs to [22:30] start from early on with the textbooks. [22:33] When these essential criterias are [22:36] fulfilled, then I think we can have an [22:38] open discussion and say, well, you know, [22:40] what should uh a potential Palestinian [22:43] state look like? But the these are the [22:45] absolute preconditions and u I'm worried [22:48] about uh this obsession [22:51] of a Palestinian state at any cost. I [22:53] don't think it's in the interest of [22:55] Europe certainly not in the interest of [22:57] the Jewish people. [22:58] >> MEP Deovski do do you have the same view [23:01] regarding the A1 E1 corridor? You know [23:05] the fact that they are building there uh [23:08] in area C. [23:12] We as checks we promoted for a long time [23:15] really two-state solution and really we [23:19] were first to move our uh our not [23:23] ambassy but uh our uh presence of the [23:27] diplomat to Jerusalem. We have it in [23:30] Jerusalem office for West Bank. And we [23:33] have it also the office official um uh [23:38] check uh check office of the Czech [23:42] embassy who is present there near the [23:45] borders with Palestine. And uh what I [23:49] said many times uh and I agree with my [23:54] best friend Mr. Ancha because uh I [23:57] discussed with him this issue in Brazil [24:01] when we were together with Christians [24:03] Democrat [24:05] parties and I have to say that it's very [24:08] important to see both side and I hope so [24:12] that in one time this is what we are [24:15] saying many times we need to to find any [24:19] solution for Israel and Palestine as a [24:22] European Union that this will be not [24:25] really any borders between Israel and [24:28] Palestine. And if the people understand [24:31] that nationalism [24:33] really doesn't help to provide and [24:37] increase the quality of the life, it [24:40] will be one of the project what can [24:43] bridge the Israel and Palestine also and [24:47] uh both uh both nation can [24:51] profitize from these projects and this [24:53] is what we are saying openly many times [24:57] and we knows that it's really uh some of [25:01] potential issue for the dialogue. Uh I [25:05] am not big supporter of many things what [25:08] uh what Israel is doing but we are [25:12] openly talking as a friends between [25:16] Czech Republic and Israel about the [25:18] problems and about the potential [25:21] solution. It's a question of dialogue [25:23] >> and this is the question of dialogue and [25:26] uh I was not so many politicians [25:29] visited West Bank as me. I was there on [25:33] the official visit, not on some activist [25:37] visit. And uh I feel that dialogue is [25:42] needed really any uh activist uh support [25:49] or any uh fat uh decision what will only [25:56] be based on the boycott and on the [25:58] complaints doesn't help to solve the [26:01] situation. [26:04] That was all for this edition of the [26:06] European Report. Thank you MEP Thomas [26:11] and Thomas Sandell for this interesting [26:15] discussion on the issues affecting the [26:17] AU Israel's relations. To our viewers, [26:21] as always, if you like our program, [26:24] please feel free to share the YouTube [26:26] link with your friends and colleagues. [26:30] My name is Yosi Lamovich and this has [26:32] been the European Report. See you again [26:35] next month. [26:38] [music] [26:44] [music] [26:51] [music]
