Transcript [00:00] I really hope that Lieberman is the next [00:02] prime minister. [music] [00:02] >> Is there any circumstance where you [00:04] would sit in a Netanyahu government [00:05] >> since October 7 then I don't see any way [00:08] that he becomes legitimate [music] as a [00:09] prime minister again. If there isn't a [00:12] political price to being prime minister [00:15] when such disaster happens then this is [00:17] something which is dangerous for us as a [00:19] country [music] because it means that [00:20] the incentives don't point towards [00:22] responsibility [music] but rather point [00:25] towards running away from Islam. [00:31] We have here [music] with us Danny [00:33] Lewis, formerly Likood, a member of [00:35] Kesset who recently switched over to [00:38] Israel Betenu. So you've gone from 32nd [00:40] on the Liood slot to now in the 10th or [00:44] ninth slot in Israel Betenu. [00:46] >> Yeah. [00:46] >> Mhm. In just about 3 months. So the [00:49] question has twofold. First, I would [00:50] love if we could just talk through a bit [00:52] the moment you knew that you could not [00:54] stay with Li any longer. And I also want [00:57] to um wanted to know if you feel that [00:59] you're in a realistic slot for this [01:01] upcoming election. [01:02] >> Okay. So, first of all, uh my my [01:05] transition from Liood to Israel Beteno [01:08] uh was based on values. Uh when I moved [01:11] to Israel in 2009, [01:13] I moved from Canada and I moved out of [01:17] Zionism. I left everything I knew. I [01:19] left a promising career after I finished [01:20] Miguel Law School at age 23. uh I left [01:23] my family and that stayed back there and [01:26] I decided to make aliyah out of Zionism. [01:29] And after I did that, one of the first [01:31] things I did when I got my toad zoot, [01:33] even before I signed a lease, uh was to [01:36] uh join the liquid party. And I did that [01:38] because I read the constitution of the [01:40] party. I was already involved in the [01:43] community and the Jewish world and [01:44] everything. But I read the constitution [01:46] of the party and I saw things that I [01:48] could really identify with. I saw free [01:50] markets. I'm a free market guy. I saw a [01:54] strong uh foreign policy, defense policy [01:59] and I also saw a call for everyone to [02:01] serve that's actually written in the [02:02] liquid constitution. When I became an MK [02:05] in the liquood, I realized that uh these [02:09] things might be written in the [02:10] constitution. They might be campaign [02:12] promises but no one actually promised to [02:15] make them actually happen. And actually [02:18] whenever I wanted to fight for these [02:19] things, I saw that the people I was [02:21] fighting against uh were people from the [02:23] Liquid. When I tried to promote free [02:25] markets, the people that protected [02:27] interest groups were people that uh were [02:30] from the Liquid that hope that these [02:31] interest groups would support them in [02:32] the primaries. Uh when I tried to push [02:36] for sovereignty in Judea and Samaria, [02:38] the people stopping it, the main person [02:41] that blocked sovereignty over and over [02:42] again is Binyam Netanyahu. I mean, he [02:44] always blocks it in the end. He might [02:46] have diplomatic reasons and things like [02:48] that, but at the end of the day, he's [02:49] the one who says no to it. And the same [02:52] thing when it comes to victory against [02:53] Hamas. But the main main issue that I [02:56] was really vocal about was the [02:58] obligation for everyone to serve in the [03:01] army definitely after October 7th. Uh [03:03] the army needs soldiers. Uh our reserve [03:07] soldiers are serving way too much. Uh [03:10] I'm at an age where if I wasn't a member [03:12] of Knesset, I would also be serving in [03:14] the front lines. members of consent [03:16] don't serve uh don't serve reserve uh [03:19] duty and so but if I wasn't then I would [03:22] be there with them all my friends are [03:25] serving I see people that are just as I [03:28] have a 2-year-old I was born after [03:29] October 7th I see friends with children [03:33] at that age that when they were just [03:34] born they were in reserves and they [03:36] couldn't be there for the birth [03:39] barely knows them they're losing their [03:41] careers because they're serving way too [03:43] much as reserve duty And there's a [03:45] solution to that is that the people who [03:47] don't serve, the ultraorththodox [03:49] community needs to start serving. And [03:52] the liquid didn't only uh in the last [03:55] election didn't only uh not uh promote [03:58] this. They did everything in order to [04:00] make the deal with the ultraorththodox [04:03] parties in order to stop any real uh [04:06] progress on the issue. When I look at [04:08] Israel Betenu, I see the complete [04:09] opposite. I see a party which actually [04:11] holds these values continues the path of [04:14] begging and jabotinski calls for [04:16] everyone to serve. Lieberman actually [04:19] refused to join the government in 2019 [04:21] on the issue of service. So he's been [04:23] already tested on that. Uh and I see a [04:26] real right-wing party, free markets, uh [04:29] belief in strong defense policy, strong [04:31] foreign policy and everyone serving. And [04:34] so I found my home. Again, the the the I [04:37] think that anyone who actually believes [04:39] in the values that are stated by the [04:41] Likood uh should join Israel Betenu. [04:44] Leave the le because it's not [04:46] representing these values anymore. [04:47] Israel Betenu is. [04:48] >> Mhm. So let's talk about on the subject [04:51] of the the draft and the draft evasion [04:53] laws, which you've obviously been very [04:54] vocal about from the start. You you said [04:57] that you you resigned to avoid adding a [04:59] vote for the draft evasion laws but the [05:02] kesset was in recess at the time and [05:04] your seat went to um Sheptai Katashi [05:07] member of Lord's regional council. So [05:10] what do you think resigning from Likud [05:12] at the time you did actually ended up [05:13] achieving? [05:14] >> No. So I actually I actually explained [05:16] that I waited until that time in order [05:19] to resign because the Knesset was still [05:21] in session but it actually wasn't in [05:23] session anymore. We we're there is [05:25] what's called when we go to election [05:27] it's called a recess for elections and [05:30] in that time only things that are [05:32] unanimous can actually pass and [05:34] therefore my role over there wasn't [05:37] important anymore but up until that time [05:40] then I stayed uh even if I had criticism [05:43] in order to do what we promised our [05:46] constituents we would do I prom we [05:49] promised again in our constitution it [05:51] says that we we'd promote service for [05:53] all And when I saw that that we're going [05:56] the complete opposite way, so I stayed [05:58] in order uh to uh combat that uh up [06:02] until the time where it became not [06:04] relevant anymore. And then that's the [06:05] that's the time uh when I left uh both [06:08] the party uh and the Knesset. Uh I have [06:12] to say that also since October 7th uh [06:14] it's been very hard for me uh to be a [06:17] part of this party uh because uh at the [06:20] end of the day October 7th happened [06:22] under our watch. It's the worst tragedy [06:25] uh since the Holocaust for the Jewish [06:27] people, the worst for Israel since its [06:29] creation. And [snorts] instead of taking [06:32] responsibility, I see uh the prime [06:35] minister, the head of the party uh do [06:37] everything in order to flee [06:38] responsibility. It has to do with a [06:40] national inquiry which he refuses to [06:42] establish. But it also has to do with [06:44] all these excuses that we hear over and [06:45] over again about no one waking him up on [06:49] the day of October 7th as if that's [06:51] really what matters. He's been in power [06:52] for decades. [06:54] >> Uh the policy that built the uh all of [06:58] the security services that he's now [07:00] blaming for October 7th. He's the one [07:02] who led the policy to build these in the [07:04] last decades. uh and uh basically [07:08] fleeing responsibility is something to [07:10] me uh which is not only immoral, it's [07:14] also non-Jewish to be honest. Our our [07:17] name as Jews comes from Judea uh from [07:21] Yehudah [07:22] who was one of the famous acts in the [07:27] Bible with Yehuda is that he sinned but [07:30] then he took responsibility for his [07:31] sins. And so I think it's something very [07:33] Jewish for us to take responsibility for [07:36] mistakes, take free responsibility for [07:38] things that happened under our watch. I [07:40] think that's what true leadership is. [07:41] When I look at Israel Betenu again, I [07:43] see uh something which is uh the [07:46] complete opposite. Avdar Lieberman was [07:48] the minister of defense and in 2016 when [07:52] he was minister of defense, he actually [07:54] wrote a document in which he said Kamas [07:57] is planning an attack exactly like [07:59] October 7th. writes, "Hamas is planning [08:01] to take over. [08:03] It's planning to take take hostages back [08:05] into Gaza. It's planning to bring the [08:07] the the conflict into our territory and [08:10] not just wait inside Gaza and throw [08:13] rockets from inside Gaza. It's going to [08:14] take the conflict to our territory. We [08:16] have to do something about it." It was [08:18] completely ignored. And so in 2018, he [08:20] actually took responsibility. He said, [08:21] "If you're not going to listen to what I [08:23] have to say, then I'm quitting my post." [08:25] Defense minister, that's like the dream [08:26] of many, many politicians. But he said, [08:28] "No, if if I'm becoming irrelevant, I'm [08:31] actually going to quit." And that's [08:32] after a long record of opposing the [08:34] disengagement, opposing the Gilachali [08:36] deal which freed Senoir. And so I see [08:39] that he was right all along the way. And [08:41] not only was he right, he also did the [08:44] tough thing of quitting when he saw that [08:46] he wasn't being listened to instead of [08:47] just sitting uh on his uh post. [08:50] >> So on the subject of taking [08:51] responsibility, would you support a [08:52] state commission of inquiry into October [08:54] 7th? [08:54] >> Definitely. I think it's it's not only [08:58] I don't understand that there's even a [09:00] discussion about this to be honest. I [09:02] mean there were no discussion about I [09:04] hear now people in the leood saying no [09:05] but that's a vehicle which isn't which [09:08] isn't the right vehicle or things like [09:10] before October 7 no one thought that [09:13] there was any problem with state [09:15] inquiries uh quite the opposite we hear [09:18] the prime minister and many members over [09:21] and time and time again calling for the [09:23] establishment of 10 inquiries on uh on [09:26] different subjects and so there was no [09:28] problem with this and only now when it's [09:31] actually something which is a huge issue [09:33] and about them uh are they calling are [09:37] they saying there's a problem with this [09:38] mechanism so obviously it's just an [09:40] excuse it's just fleeing responsibility [09:42] and it's not something that I can [09:43] identify with I completely supported [09:46] >> so also you've um this isn't your first [09:49] time interviewing at the Jerusalem Post [09:51] I will point out so we have from [09:52] previous interviews [09:54] >> as a member of Likood [09:56] >> you have in the past blamed October 7th [09:58] on like past decades of policy bringing [10:00] up Oslo slow disengagement chit deal and [10:03] you said that victory had restored [10:05] deterrence but now we're saying how [10:07] Netanyahu has failed so what what [10:10] changed what shifts from from victory to [10:12] failure [10:13] >> no I I first of all everything I said [10:15] then and uh I I agree with Oslo uh was a [10:20] huge problem and it's probably the [10:21] source of what gave much power to kamas [10:25] in Gaza but that continues afterwards [10:27] with the disengagement which Netanyahu [10:29] voted for uh which continues with the [10:31] Gilachi deal which I mentioned then [10:33] right you you echoed that you quoted me [10:35] on that which Netanyahu is the one who [10:37] signed the deal he promoted the deal and [10:40] it continued with all the policy that [10:43] continued afterwards not the Qatari [10:45] money not taking care of kamas [10:47] leadership again all of these issues now [10:49] when it comes to uh the strong [10:52] performance that Israel had had in the [10:54] past few years I agree I still agree [10:56] with that I think that on the [10:57] battlefield Israel was absolutely [10:59] incredible I think we did an incredible [11:01] uh job in in Lebanon with the we know [11:05] the the beeper attack, the the Nasella [11:08] which was eliminated in Gaza. [11:11] Our army did incredible also in Iran and [11:15] the army did incredible and I think that [11:19] this is definitely something which we [11:21] which we can be proud of and to that the [11:24] army needs to get credit and I think [11:26] that also the prime minister needs to [11:27] get some credit but the problem is that [11:30] the prime minister and this is actually [11:32] something which which I echoed there uh [11:35] the prime minister speaks uh about total [11:38] victory and what I said then is that in [11:42] order to restore our deterrence, what we [11:44] needed is total victory. But when you [11:46] look at the facts on the ground, we [11:48] didn't get total victory. Kamas is still [11:50] in Gaza. So yes, the army did amazing, [11:53] but at the end of the day, we are the [11:56] ones we lik right where I was in Liiku [11:58] then. We are the ones that said that if [12:00] Hamas was still in power after October [12:03] 7, after this war was over, then that [12:06] would be a failure and not total [12:07] victory. Well, that's the that's the [12:09] case right now. Uh, and when we look at, [12:13] yes, they took a huge hit and I'm very [12:15] happy they took a huge hit, but they're [12:17] still there able to rebuild, able to [12:19] regroup, and they'll still be a threat [12:21] in the decades to come. When it comes to [12:23] Iran, I look at Iran and I see that they [12:25] got a huge hit. But if we defined regime [12:28] changed as the goal, and that's what the [12:29] prime minister defined, right? He [12:31] himself defined it before. [12:34] I don't know how that translate into [12:36] English, roaring lion. Thank you. And so [12:39] if you if you define that as the goal [12:41] and that doesn't happen, then you still [12:43] have this regime that I think what [12:46] they're doing right now is just uh [12:48] buying time hoping that the Trump [12:50] administration is going to end when [12:51] they're still in power and then they'll [12:53] they'll test their luck with the next [12:55] American administration, go back to [12:57] nuclear weapons, still be an incredible [13:00] strategic threat to Israel and even an [13:02] existential threat definitely if they [13:04] get nuclear weapons. And so on every [13:06] single one of the fronts, we promised [13:08] total victory. And yes, I do believe [13:10] that total victory restores deterrence, [13:12] but we didn't deliver total victory. [13:15] >> And so that that's that's the [13:16] unfortunate reality right now. [13:19] So, I guess we we kind of touched on [13:21] this on um how you have in the past [13:24] you've you've called yourself even a [13:26] even a fan of Netanyao stuff and [13:29] obviously since then is there can you [13:31] pinpoint maybe a specific moment with in [13:34] regards to Netanyahu where you realized [13:37] like there's the party at large but also [13:39] it can't follow this person. I think [13:41] that the fling of responsibility after [13:43] October 7th to me made me understand [13:48] the the breath of uh of change that [13:52] there was in who Netanyahu is or at [13:54] least I don't I I can't say that I knew [13:57] him personally for decades right but the [14:00] public perspective that I saw in him the [14:02] readings the books that I read that he [14:04] wrote right a durable piece and all of [14:06] these incredible books that he wrote uh [14:09] the policy that he said that he would [14:11] promote and then what when I came into [14:13] the Knesset [14:15] and I saw after October 7th especially [14:19] that he first I mean it went like that [14:21] basically the the sequence of events [14:23] went like that uh first he said we can't [14:27] have an inquiry right now because we're [14:28] at war and I thought that makes sense [14:30] we're in intense war I don't want the [14:32] generals to be dealing with explaining [14:35] what why they did why what they did and [14:38] then uh during a time of intense war. [14:41] Then he started saying, "Oh, maybe [14:43] there's a better alternative to a state [14:44] inquiry." And so I waited to see where's [14:46] the alternative. The alternative didn't [14:48] come, right? If he wanted to establish [14:50] an actual alternative, he would have [14:52] been able to. And I understood in [14:55] Hebrew, we saidal Simon, I don't know [14:57] how you would translate that in English. [14:59] Basically, I had this this Eureka [15:02] moment, right? Where I understood that [15:05] he might be speaking very nicely. He [15:07] might be speaking of the right values [15:09] but at the end of the day when it comes [15:10] to implementing them uh we see the exact [15:13] opposite and it's true on many different [15:15] things that are important to me. As I [15:17] said it's true about responsibility for [15:20] your actions. We spoke about that. It's [15:21] true about the enlistment issue and [15:24] there I've been very vocal paid a very [15:26] big price and uh I saw Netanyahu going [15:31] running in the different in the opposite [15:34] direction and it's true also about free [15:36] markets which to me as a young family [15:39] the cost of living in Israel is a very [15:41] important issue and I see the liquid [15:43] promising free markets but going the [15:45] opposite direction also [15:46] >> to shift away from from Gaza in October [15:49] 7th something else that's just An [15:51] interesting point. You've stated before [15:53] in the past when you were with Likood [15:55] that that you found your place in Liood [15:57] as a Moroccan Jew. There's the sociology [16:00] of it and there's the ideology of it. Do [16:02] you feel that that part of your identity [16:05] has a home in Israel Betenu? [16:08] >> Definitely. I think that is Betenu [16:10] has undergone [16:13] a very interesting shift in the last few [16:16] decades. It was always a party that was [16:19] established by uh Russian immigrants, [16:22] which to me is something very positive. [16:24] As an immigrant myself, I see great [16:26] pride in seeing that immigrants can get [16:28] to the highest spots. Uh right, [16:30] Lieberman was finance minister, he was [16:32] defense minister, he was foreign [16:34] minister, and so he got really really to [16:36] the top spots of influence. Hopefully, [16:39] he'll be prime minister. That's my hope. [16:41] uh but right right now he's already been [16:44] in in the three top posts in polit in [16:47] the political echelon other than prime [16:49] minister and so that's as an immigrant [16:51] myself that's that gives great pride but [16:54] also we see that the list of Israel [16:56] betenu when you look at the top 10 for [16:58] example uh you have half immigrants me [17:01] included by the way and half that are [17:03] not immigrants that were born in Israel [17:05] or four is not an immigrant number two [17:08] in our list is actually a Moroccan also [17:12] Benetrit [17:13] number three Lancre also Moroccan by the [17:16] way and so you see the divers [17:20] the diverse uh [17:22] >> diversification [17:22] >> the diversification [17:23] >> of the list [17:24] >> of the list and it's not only of the [17:26] list again I think that you see [17:27] something which [17:30] is Betenu the name Israel Betenu says [17:33] Israel is our home so it's something [17:34] that sounds very strong for immigrants [17:36] because we chose Israel to be our home [17:38] but it's also very strong for Israelis [17:40] because Israel is their home. They were [17:41] born here. And so you you can see that [17:43] also that soci sociological sorry [17:47] reality be very relevant in uh in [17:51] Israel. I have to say very honestly uh [17:54] that in the leud uh yes you also [17:58] historically have the uh Moroccan and [18:01] Sephardic community that found its home [18:03] in the Likood begging that the famous [18:08] I don't know how to translate that but [18:11] he had famous speeches and he was a [18:14] really an idol for the Sphartic [18:16] community and I have to say it was also [18:19] true over the years and up until today I [18:21] think that there's uh a lot of sphartic [18:25] Moroccan representation within the le [18:28] some of it is positive but some of it I [18:30] have to say is also part of the things [18:32] that turned me off when I see uh someone [18:36] speak in the name of Moroccans and then [18:39] uh yell and then uh curse and then uh [18:44] speak in a way that I would never [18:46] imagine my own father speaking and [18:49] people saying oh here that's Moroccan [18:51] represent resentation, then I don't [18:54] identify with that at all. I think that [18:55] Moroccan representation is uh to be uh [18:59] very connected uh to your Moroccan [19:02] heritage, to Moroccan art, to Moroccan [19:04] music, to Moroccan culture, to culinary [19:06] stuff, uh to values, to philosophy, to [19:10] rabbitic figures that knew how to bring [19:12] people together. Rabbi Masash, who's the [19:14] one I I I go by, was a a Moroccan figure [19:18] who knew how to bring religious and [19:20] secular together in his own community [19:22] and did a lot of uh of compromise in [19:25] order for that to happen. And so that's [19:27] the Moroccan tradition that I believe [19:29] in. And it's not always uh the one that [19:32] gets the most space to be represented in [19:34] the leud of today. [19:36] >> So you mentioned by the way the the [19:39] religion almost I we don't have a term [19:41] for for church and state. So religion [19:43] and state as a whole. Um do you identify [19:46] just real quick as a religious person? [19:48] >> I'm religious. Yes. [19:49] >> Um just for the state. So you've stated [19:52] you have talked about it before about [19:54] like um you know protecting the Jewish [19:57] identity of our state as as a Jewish [20:00] democratic. Um Israel aletu when it [20:03] comes to campaigning on on separation of [20:05] religion and state we have issues [20:07] primarily civil marriage and public [20:09] transportation on Shabbat. So where do [20:11] you [20:11] >> No, but that's not I I have to say I've [20:13] always been a liberal and you can also [20:14] look at my quotes in the past. A liberal [20:17] in the in the European sense just to be [20:19] clear because Americans are listening to [20:20] that and they're probably thinking, "Oh, [20:21] he's leftwing." No, I'm very very [20:23] right-wing. But liberal and classical [20:25] liberalism in in Europe means that you [20:28] believe in small governments. You [20:30] believe in less intervention of [20:32] government in your life. By the way, the [20:34] religious people in the United States [20:36] are the first to be for separation of [20:38] church and state because they believe [20:39] that intervention of state inside your [20:42] religious practice hurts religious [20:44] practice. And I think that there's a [20:47] difference between uh the Jewish [20:49] identity of the state uh which has to do [20:51] with our flag, with our uh with our his [20:55] uh with our common history, with the [20:57] fact that our holidays are the Jewish [20:58] holiday, with all of these uh things. uh [21:02] uh and the coercion uh of religion uh on [21:06] the individual. I'm fully against [21:08] religious corion. I believe in living [21:10] and let live. Uh I believe that I'm [21:12] religious but that there should also be [21:15] options for people who are not religious [21:17] and therefore I believe yes I believe in [21:19] public transportation on Shabbat. I grew [21:21] up in Montreal. I never felt that the [21:22] fact that there's public transportation [21:24] next to me hurts my religious practice. [21:27] I don't think that it's that way. The [21:29] opposite to be honest. I think that uh [21:31] uh that uh the fact that there's a lot [21:34] of traffic because there's no uh uh [21:37] public transportation hurts Shabbat more [21:40] than if there was actual a little bit of [21:43] public transportation and less noise. So [21:45] I think actually that I I do believe in [21:48] allowing municipalities to decide [21:51] whether they want to allow public [21:52] transportation or not. I don't think it [21:54] should be a blanket uh authorization [21:56] because every community has its own [21:58] identity and we should allow each [21:59] community to decide how to run their [22:01] their ways and in general in every issue [22:03] when there is a religious coercion. I'm [22:05] against religious corion as a religious [22:07] Jew. I think it only hurts uh religion. [22:09] It hurts my own practice of religion [22:11] because it means that there's a ravenet [22:13] which I don't necessarily identify with [22:15] which is often overtaken by karedi [22:18] parties and that will define to me what [22:20] is the right way uh to practice my [22:22] religion but it also hurts religion in [22:25] the eyes of the secular because they see [22:27] it as something which is pushed down [22:28] their throat rather than the beauty that [22:30] it is supposed to be. Mhm. I will just [22:32] state like just so it's clear for the [22:34] record, you mentioned small government [22:36] and you were talking about the [22:38] minimizing government intervention in [22:40] daily lives and not like a minority [22:42] government or things like that. We talk [22:44] about just to be clear cuz everyone of [22:46] course leading into my next question of [22:48] the the the mythical broad Zionist [22:51] coalition that everyone is talking about [22:53] building [22:55] um and stuff. So I do just want to make [22:57] it clear that we're talking [22:58] >> I'm talking about small government and [22:59] the way foring [23:00] >> Yeah. and [clears throat] in the way [23:02] conservatives speak of small government [23:04] and yeah [23:06] >> now so yeah going to to the like leading [23:09] into the coalition um because you have [23:13] in the past um [23:15] saying you've criticized and you've [23:17] touched on it a bit now so we're talking [23:19] about giving the giving smaller parties [23:22] too much power with the opposition's [23:24] broad boycott of I won't sit with [23:26] Netanyahu [23:28] are you now part of that or is there a [23:33] is there any circumstance where you [23:34] would sit in a Netanyahu government [23:36] again? [23:37] >> Listen, after the way we see that he's [23:39] running away from responsibility uh [23:42] since October 7, then I don't see uh any [23:45] way that he becomes legitimate as a [23:47] prime minister again. I really hope that [23:50] Lieberman is the next prime minister. [23:53] I think we have a lot of work to do in [23:54] the next month in order to make that [23:56] possible. Uh er but uh [24:00] Regardless of that, I think that October [24:03] 7th is a breaking point where we need to [24:07] say that the person that was in power on [24:09] October 7th needs to be replaced and [24:12] there especially since he's running away [24:15] from responsibility and the reason is [24:17] because we are a country that wants to [24:19] survive long term and if there isn't a [24:23] political price to being prime minister [24:25] when such disaster happens uh then this [24:28] is something uh which is dangerous for [24:31] us as a country uh because it means that [24:33] the incentives [24:35] uh the political incentives uh don't [24:38] point towards responsibility but rather [24:40] point towards running away from [24:42] responsibility and so I think that it's [24:44] very important for the next government [24:46] not to be led by Netanyahu [24:48] >> as we stand right now with our with our [24:50] current polling across across the board [24:53] of all our parties do you think it's [24:55] possible for with the if there if the [24:58] elections were held today with the [24:59] results that we've seen for a broad [25:01] zionist coalition to be formed without [25:03] the inclusion of the minority small [25:05] parties. [25:06] >> Uh you're talking about the and the and [25:10] >> so again I think that what we need to do [25:13] is get an alternative government that's [25:14] not the current government and without [25:17] Netanyahu and so I do believe that it's [25:20] possible I think that the polling right [25:22] now to be honest I I want to speak a [25:25] little bit about technical politics. [25:26] Okay. I think the polling right now is [25:28] is a little twarted because I think that [25:30] two parties right now are passing in the [25:32] polls and won't pass in the end. It [25:34] happens many times when people are [25:36] pulling a month before at four seats. [25:38] Yeah. [25:38] >> Maximum five seats. Usually they don't [25:40] pass in the election. And so the whole [25:42] map looks uh very different. So I think [25:45] that you can have the Zionist opposition [25:48] right now getting over 61 seats and I [25:51] foresee that happening. Uh but we need [25:54] to work in order for that to happen. and [25:56] we need to get the the vote out. We need [25:58] to convince the the public that it's [26:00] time for change. I think that the public [26:01] that's been here in the last uh four [26:04] years uh just needs to be reminded of [26:06] what they went through and then they'll [26:08] be convinced to be honest. Uh and so I [26:12] do believe that it's possible and I hope [26:14] that we will get the Zionist opposition [26:17] right now become the Zionist coalition [26:19] and that will that will lead this [26:21] country. Would you be willing, if [26:23] necessary, would you be willing to sit [26:24] with an Arab party in the coalition? [26:26] >> No. Uh, after October 7th, it has [26:28] nothing to do with them being Arabs, by [26:30] the way. Yes. Just to be clear. Uh, but [26:33] after October 7th, parties that don't [26:36] recognize uh the state of Israel, [26:38] parties that didn't [26:41] condemn October 7, that didn't condemn [26:44] Hamas, and that aren't willing to do [26:46] this very very clearly, then that's a [26:48] very big nogo. That's what the uh [26:52] leader of my party also says, Avdor [26:55] Lieberman. And so it's it's it's not a [26:58] possibility right now. [27:00] >> So you we touched on we touched on um [27:03] sovereignty in the West Bank. You [27:04] mentioned that um that Netanyahu was the [27:07] one who was blocking that the most in in [27:09] Liood. Now Lieman has floated the [27:12] possibility of of Jordan holding an [27:15] administrative role in Palestinian [27:17] areas. Would you be in support of a plan [27:18] like that? So again, I think that this [27:20] made the news a lot, but people didn't [27:23] really understand the depth of what he [27:25] said. Lieberman said in a very very [27:27] clear way, the number one priority needs [27:29] to be to dismantle the Palestinian [27:31] Authority. We see the Palestinian [27:32] Authority going all around the world and [27:34] doing what we call diplomatic terrorism, [27:38] calling for sanctions against Israel. I [27:39] mean, when you see the UK [27:42] preparing sanctions against Israel, who [27:44] do you think prepares these? So, it's [27:45] the Palestinian Authority that's really [27:47] there. It has its very organized plan to [27:50] try and get Israel to bow down uh [27:53] through uh economic sanctions. And it's [27:56] also been supporting terrorism, actual [27:57] terrorism, not just diplomatic [27:59] terrorism, actual terrorism, through [28:00] paying salaries to people to terrorists, [28:03] to the families of terrorists after they [28:06] did those terrorist actions, etc., etc. [28:09] They're they're terrorist supporters in [28:10] in a 100 way. And so what Lieberman said [28:12] is that uh if you take those uh [28:16] responsibilities that the Palestinian [28:17] Authority right now has and you [28:20] dismantle the the the Palestinian [28:22] Authority, then there needs to be [28:24] another actor that takes them in order [28:26] there for them not for there not to be a [28:28] vacuum. He didn't say that we're going [28:30] to give pieces of land of Israel to the [28:33] Jordanians. That's not what he said. [28:34] It's talking about those specific [28:36] responsibilities. There cannot be a [28:37] vacuum. And the Hashimite Kingdom has [28:42] vested interest in fighting terrorism [28:45] because Palestinian terrorism is a [28:47] threat to the kingdom just as much as it [28:50] is a threat to Israel if not more. To be [28:53] honest, we all know that the kingdom can [28:56] get unstable if the Palestinian [28:58] terrorism becomes more significant. And [29:02] so I I think that there's here a [29:03] fair-minded uh uh statement which is [29:07] very different than what the LI could [29:09] try to portray it as as giving pieces of [29:11] land to the Jordanians. That's not what [29:14] we spoke about. Uh what was spoken about [29:16] is again at the end of the day there is [29:18] a role to the Palestinian Authority [29:20] right now and someone will have to fill [29:21] it. Mhm. So, let's go back to the um the [29:25] the concept of a draft law in a um if [29:29] the opposition Zionist like the Zionist [29:31] opposition were to become the Zionist [29:33] coalition, [29:36] how do you think we could realistically [29:39] like because it's very easy to say [29:42] everyone should draft and that's it. But [29:44] on a realistic level, how do you think [29:47] that the next government could push the [29:49] issue of of of a karate draft? So, the [29:53] number one uh way to do it, and again, [29:55] I've been in tons of uh of uh committee [30:00] meetings uh about the draft law that was [30:04] trying to find a compromise with the [30:06] compromises won't happen because the [30:09] party see it as their role to stop [30:12] integration of the ultraorththodox in [30:14] the workforce and in the army. So there [30:16] won't be any compromise with them [30:18] because they see it as their role not to [30:20] get to a compromise but to actually stop [30:22] uh these things and so all the [30:23] compromises that they actually suggested [30:26] I saw were full of loopholes so that [30:29] they can keep the actual situation [30:31] continuing. What is the alternative that [30:33] we suggest? Uh what you need to do is [30:35] change the uh incentives. Uh right now [30:38] the incentive of a young man that gets [30:41] to the draft age is not to draft. uh he [30:45] gets budgets, he gets uh uh [30:49] hat benefits, uh he gets uh everything [30:52] that he needs and he gets very little [30:55] sanctions uh if any. Uh we need to turn [30:59] that around and there it needs to be [31:01] clear that if you do not draft then you [31:03] will have some very hard sanctions [31:04] against you. That's true about not [31:06] getting any state benefits. It's true [31:08] about not getting any uh thing like [31:12] Arnona discounts. Arna is the municipal [31:14] tax [31:14] >> property tax. Yeah, [31:16] >> property tax. Uh it's true about uh uh [31:21] many many things that were listed [31:23] they're listed in our platform. Uh that [31:25] will completely change the incentive and [31:27] we believe that very quickly when that [31:30] happens you will have a lot of kared [31:32] individuals that will say wait I don't [31:34] want to live my life in total poverty. I [31:37] don't want to live my life in such a in [31:39] such a way. I'm going to go and I'm [31:40] going to enlist. We believe to be fully [31:43] honest that are people and people are [31:47] influenced by incentives. The actually [31:49] the person who proved that was Binyamata [31:52] in 2003 as finance minister when he cut [31:55] child benefits were which were [31:56] exponential. Right back then if you had [31:59] a fifth child then you get exponentially [32:02] more money. It wasn't per child it was [32:04] exponential every time. uh and so uh a a [32:09] family with around I don't know five [32:11] kids would get I don't remember what the [32:13] number is and I don't want to mislead [32:14] the listeners but would get let's say [32:16] just for the purpose of this discussion [32:18] 10,000 shekels a month in benefits okay [32:21] and so when you cut that actually you [32:24] saw that herium [32:26] ultraorththodox they respond to [32:29] incentives and they made uh less [32:32] children now I don't go into their [32:33] decision of making more children or less [32:35] children I Just saying that at the end [32:37] of the day it has to be a decision that [32:38] you make responsibility responsibly when [32:41] you can provide for them when right when [32:42] I have a child I make the decision when [32:45] I can provide for that child. I don't [32:47] make that decision when the government [32:48] can provide for it when someone else the [32:51] secular community will provide for him. [32:53] I make it because I can provide for him. [32:56] And so that change that he made in 2003 [32:58] proves that the Karedi community even on [33:00] the issue which is much more uh it's [33:04] much more uh sacred than the draft. It's [33:08] having children that's the number one [33:09] thing right and so even on that issue [33:12] you can see that they responded to [33:13] incentives because again every human [33:15] being responds to incentives. Mhm. So [33:18] I'll ask you one final question just um [33:21] is there anything you have like either [33:25] told told us the post in the past year [33:27] or have that you've said in your [33:29] capacity of a member of Liood that now [33:32] in Israel that you'd like to either [33:34] resend or set the record straight. [33:36] >> I think I said it last in the in the [33:39] actually in the last thing that I said [33:41] about the draft law. I really believe [33:43] that we can get to a compromise uh with [33:46] the parties. Uh but what I saw is that [33:49] in all of the negotiations that we uh [33:52] that we did, they were busy trying to [33:55] build in loopholes into the compromise [33:58] in order for the situation to just go on [34:02] the way it is right now. And so in that [34:05] situation, I understood that there's no [34:07] getting into a compromise with the [34:09] party. That's also why I believe that [34:10] the next government cannot be with [34:13] Kharidi parties. I really love the [34:16] Karedi community, the people, but when [34:18] it comes to their party, their [34:19] representation, their political [34:21] representation, their number one goal is [34:23] to stop the integration of the [34:26] ultraorththodox within the job market [34:28] and within uh the army uh for reasons [34:33] that I believe is just in order to keep [34:34] the control over them. Uh but that's [34:37] again that's up for interpretation and [34:40] so I unfortunately don't believe that we [34:42] can get into and compromise with them. [34:45] >> All right. Well um Daniel of Isenu thank [34:48] you so [music] much for your time today. [34:48] Thank you very much.
