Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for 61, JTA's Israel [00:05] election podcast, where we break down [00:07] the fundamentals of Israel's 2026 [00:10] elections, the politics, the players, [00:12] and what's at stake as the country heads [00:14] to the polls. [00:15] I'm Ami Eden, CEO and executive editor [00:17] of 70 Faces Media, the organization [00:20] behind the Jewish Telegraphic Agency. [00:23] >> And I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:26] correspondent. Today marks 8 days until [00:28] Israelis cast their votes. [00:31] >> One note before we begin. [00:33] Every Friday, we'll be answering [00:35] questions from you, our listeners. So, [00:37] if something sparks your curiosity, or [00:39] there's an aspect of Israeli politics [00:41] you'd like us to explain, send us your [00:43] questions at waitingfor61@jta.org. [00:47] Election day is approaching, Ruth, and [00:49] it just seems like headlines are jumping [00:51] out everywhere, and there's so much to [00:53] get to. So, we're going to do something [00:54] a little different today. Rather than [00:56] have one topic that we really, really go [00:59] super focused and deep on, we thought [01:01] we'd hit a few of the headlines that are [01:04] popping up that I imagine like a lot of [01:07] our readers are see and listeners are [01:09] are seeing and would love to get a [01:11] little under little better understanding [01:13] of what exactly is happening, what does [01:15] it mean for the election. [01:17] So, let's start with the big news of the [01:19] day, Benny Gantz. [01:21] >> As we sat down to record this, Ami, we [01:23] see we I got a message from [01:25] Benny Gantz's [01:27] party, from Blue and White, saying that [01:30] former IDF chief, who was at one point [01:33] uh in the running to become prime [01:34] minister, had decided to pull out of [01:36] this election. He's been campaigning [01:38] hard, but it no no none of the polls [01:42] have given him even the chance of [01:44] crossing the threshold. And I guess it [01:46] just got to a point where he realized, [01:48] you know, he's not going to get into the [01:50] Knesset. Um it's not worth his while to [01:52] keep on going. And uh he in his [01:55] statement, he said that he will continue [01:58] uh to fight to unite the country. That's [02:01] kind of been his platform has been about [02:03] pulling both sides together and he's [02:05] very very centrist. He is going to have [02:07] a press conference later this evening, [02:09] probably to explain his motivation [02:12] behind pulling out, so we're only [02:13] speculating right now, but that's that's [02:16] the breaking news that I have right now. [02:19] >> And just to remind people because it's [02:21] actually for anybody who you we all talk [02:23] about oh, why can't we have can be to [02:25] try to build bridges and bring people [02:27] together. That's a big Gantz's [02:30] arguably tried to do consistently as a [02:32] through line and in many ways it's why [02:35] his [02:36] stature in his party has basically [02:38] crashed and burned, right? As a [02:39] reminder, he came onto the scene, former [02:43] um IDF Chief of Staff. He created the [02:45] Blue and White party. [02:47] It surged in one I can't keep track of [02:50] all the elections, but in one of those [02:52] elections in that late 2010s, early [02:56] 2020s, they actually were like neck and [02:58] neck [02:59] with Likud and Netanyahu. They ended up [03:02] forming [03:03] a a a coalition that had a rotation [03:06] where Netanyahu was going to be the [03:09] Prime Minister first or first and then [03:11] Gantz. [03:12] People in the opposition were furious [03:14] because [03:15] Gantz had basically said he wasn't going [03:17] to go with Netanyahu, but then [03:20] there was, you know, fear of yet another [03:22] election, so he's like for the good of [03:23] the country, we're going to [03:25] do this coalition. [03:27] Not only was everybody furious at him in [03:29] the opposition group, [03:31] but then Bibi pulled a fast one on him [03:33] and before it was his turn to become [03:35] Prime Minister, Bibi basically [03:38] maneuvered and sank the government so [03:40] that they'd have another election and he [03:41] wouldn't have to hand it over. So, he [03:44] got kind of I felt like Gantz got caught [03:46] holding the bag, right? He had bur he [03:49] had burned his opposition partners [03:52] and then Bibi burned him, leaving him [03:55] out in the cold and [03:57] he [03:57] really has never recovered politically. [03:59] When after October 7th, Netanyahu [04:02] brought him into his government, into [04:04] the war cabinet, and I guess Benny Gantz [04:06] in that setting did have some influence [04:09] for part of the war, but eventually [04:11] dropped out over disagreements with [04:13] Netanyahu. But basically, am I right to [04:15] say you basically have voters in Israel [04:18] they either want Netanyahu or they don't [04:21] want Netanyahu. And sort of straddling [04:23] and saying, "Oh, well, I'll vote, you [04:25] know, I'm willing to make, you know, a [04:27] government with either side or bring [04:29] both sides together." It's not what most [04:31] Israelis want, right? Is that fair? [04:33] >> I [04:34] I would say that is very fair, and I'll [04:36] also remind you of the discussion we had [04:38] in in one of the previous [04:40] editions, where we said where I pointed [04:42] out to you that chief just because [04:44] someone is a successful chief of staff [04:46] doesn't mean they're going to be a [04:47] successful politician. [04:49] And I think that's the case here with [04:51] Benny Gantz. And and I think it will [04:53] just be interesting to see now if those [04:56] votes, because he probably did have a [04:58] significant number of votes, just not [04:59] enough to pass the threshold, if those [05:02] people will now vote for [05:04] for Gadi Eisenkot or if they'll put [05:06] their votes into somewhere else. [05:09] >> So before we move on, Ruth, just to make [05:11] clear you're talking about where his [05:12] voters might vote now, but had he been [05:15] elected, he was basically saying [05:18] that he would really be willing to sit [05:21] with either side or even ideally [05:23] bring some sort of combination of the [05:25] two sides together. That Is that right? [05:28] >> Yeah, I mean, I think he was kind of [05:29] vague, and maybe that was that vagueness [05:31] that kind of [05:32] led to him to lose support. And I think [05:35] it's exactly what you said, like it's [05:38] such a it's such a emotional election, [05:41] and people want to know. They want to [05:42] know who where you are and who you stand [05:44] for. Do you support the government [05:46] that's been in power for the last 4 [05:47] years, or are you against it? Do you [05:49] want change? And, you know, we've [05:51] discussed all the issues in previous [05:53] editions, but [05:54] I think he was a little bit vague on [05:56] that. And, you know, he wanted to see a [05:59] stage where, you know, both sides [06:02] where the center would be able to [06:04] dominate as opposed to the extremes on [06:07] either side. [06:08] >> Okay, let's move on to yesterday's big [06:10] news, um Trump's [06:13] endorsement of Netanyahu. [06:15] >> Yeah, I mean, we're we're in like the [06:16] the finals the final part of the cycle [06:19] now. Like, this is it. Like, every day [06:21] is going to be like high stakes. Uh [06:24] so, yes, last night, or I mean, I guess [06:26] it was afternoon for you guys in in the [06:28] US, uh President Trump said that he was [06:30] going to endorse Netanyahu, that he [06:33] needed Netanyahu uh to be prime minister [06:35] because if, you know, anything ever [06:37] happened with Iran, he can't go it [06:38] alone. He needs Netanyahu there. [06:41] Um you know, and that was very [06:42] interesting. I mean, I don't think I [06:44] mean, according to the analysts I spoke [06:46] to uh yesterday evening, this has never [06:49] happened before. Uh no US president has [06:52] ever endorsed an Israeli candidate. The [06:54] reactions here were were ranging, at [06:56] least according to the pundits on [06:58] Israeli television. Some were like, you [07:01] know, this is interference, and you [07:03] know, what's going on here? How dare uh [07:05] President Trump interfere in Israel's [07:07] elections, especially when uh there was [07:09] a tweet the other day from Ambassador [07:11] Huckabee, uh US ambassador to Israel, [07:13] saying that there was no way that the US [07:16] would ever interfere in Israeli uh [07:17] politics. And, obviously, that wasn't uh [07:20] the case. Um and then, there were other [07:22] people that said, "Well, you know, um [07:24] obviously, Trump has some kind of [07:27] insight. Um he must have done carried [07:30] out his own polls, or got his own like [07:32] um you know, survey done in Israel to [07:35] see that actually Netanyahu looks like [07:39] he might actually pull this off and win [07:41] this election uh despite the odds [07:44] against him, despite everything that has [07:46] happened in the last 3 years. So, I [07:49] thought that that was very interesting, [07:50] but on the other side, many of the the [07:53] two at least the two analysts I spoke [07:55] to, one who does all the surveys and the [07:58] polls for the Israel Democracy Democracy [08:00] Institute, she told me um Professor [08:04] Tamar Herman told me that it's not going [08:07] to make any difference to um to the [08:09] outcome that that the blocks are the [08:12] blocks, and maybe it will allow more [08:15] people will vote for Netanyahu, but most [08:17] of those who think Netanyahu is this [08:19] amazing uh [08:21] you know, global statesman to get an [08:23] endorsement from Trump, most of them [08:26] already think that. So, Trump's [08:28] endorsement doesn't really make any [08:29] difference, and most of those who are [08:31] voting against Netanyahu or they don't [08:32] want Netanyahu in power, [08:34] they don't care what Trump says. [08:36] >> So, what was really striking about it to [08:37] me was here in America, [08:40] Trump's approval ratings are [08:43] cratering, and meanwhile, [08:46] here he is coming out with this [08:48] endorsement for Netanyahu, which [08:50] presumably the prime minister wanted. [08:54] Um and so, I guess it's it there's a how [08:56] however poorly his ratings are here, I [08:58] guess there's an impression that [09:01] he's still quite popular in Israel or or [09:03] at least more popular than [09:05] you know, he is in in the states. [09:08] >> That's exactly the thing, Ami. No, like [09:10] from you know, the polls that were taken [09:12] recently, there was a time when Trump [09:14] was, you know, as he said himself that [09:17] the Israelis loved him, and they wanted [09:18] him to to you know, if he ran for [09:21] election here, he would get elected. [09:22] What what did he say? 99% of the vote. [09:25] >> Right. [09:25] >> Um but I don't think that is the case [09:27] anymore. There were polls done uh [09:29] carried out after the when when Trump [09:32] ended the Iran the war with Iran, and [09:35] Israelis felt [09:37] uh very very disappointed. They felt [09:40] very let down by Trump. They felt that [09:42] he didn't have Israel's best interest at [09:44] heart. He hasn't totally eliminated the [09:48] the threat from Iran. And people have [09:50] lost a lost a little bit of support for [09:52] him here. I mean, I think it's even gone [09:54] down from something like 73 or 75% [09:58] which is where it was a year or two ago, [10:01] down to like in the 40s somewhere. So, [10:04] you know, that's quite a significant [10:05] drop. And like I said, you know, there's [10:08] really not that many outside influences [10:10] that can that can have an impact on [10:13] Israel's election. Like really [10:16] you know, the blocks are hard and fast. [10:18] The only difference that it can make is [10:19] that within Netanyahu's block, people [10:22] might decide to vote for him because of [10:25] this endorsement from Trump, which could [10:27] give him the edge. And you know, I was [10:29] listening to a very interesting podcast [10:31] this morning in Hebrew talking about how [10:34] there was a race now for [10:37] the two biggest parties, which is Likud [10:39] and Gadi Eisenkot's Yisrael Beiteinu [10:41] party, to try and get as many votes as [10:43] possible. So, they are the biggest party [10:45] and they will be the one that the [10:46] president calls on to form the [10:49] coalition. [10:50] >> Okay, so let's turn [10:52] inside Israel with another I guess [10:55] storyline [10:56] involving the Prime Minister. [10:59] And that's Itamar Ben-Gvir, [11:02] National Security Minister and head of [11:04] the ultra-right Otzma Yehudit party. [11:08] You talked about the blocks and how you [11:10] know, you have the two different blocks [11:12] and there's a lot of shifting within the [11:14] blocks right now. [11:16] What's going on with Netanyahu and [11:18] Ben-Gvir? It feels like there's a [11:20] I don't know if tension's the right word [11:22] or jockeying like between them. What [11:24] what's happening there? [11:25] >> So, I mean, I'll I'll start off by [11:27] saying that within within the blocks, [11:30] within the the pro-Netanyahu and the the [11:33] change or opposition to Netanyahu block, [11:35] there is infighting. I mean, there's [11:37] tensions between Eisenkot and Lieberman [11:41] and Eisenkot and Bennett. And and also [11:44] in Netanyahu's block, you know, the [11:46] ultra-Orthodox are not very happy with [11:47] Netanyahu cuz he didn't pass the you [11:50] know, the the draft law. And um and [11:54] Ben-Gvir, who is probably the loudest [11:57] out of [11:58] all the one of the loudest out of all [12:00] the politicians, he called a press [12:01] conference yesterday evening where he [12:04] you know, he said, "Netanyahu's trying [12:06] to push me out. He doesn't want me to be [12:09] a minister in the next government." You [12:11] know, Ben-Gvir has said he wants to be [12:13] the defense minister, you know, a step [12:15] up from the national security ministry [12:18] where he has been for the last 4 years. [12:21] And uh he says, "Netanyahu's trying to [12:23] push me out. He's promised European [12:25] governments that I am not going to be in [12:28] be a minister in the government." And [12:30] and we know that, you know, having [12:32] Ben-Gvir in the government has caused [12:34] quite a lot of strife for Netanyahu [12:36] diplomatically. I mean, you know, [12:38] because of these now sanctions by the UK [12:41] and uh France and other countries who uh [12:45] who, you know, don't want uh [12:47] to have products from Israeli [12:49] settlements in their countries. And I'll [12:52] say that there's also some talk, and I [12:55] don't know how realistic that is, that [12:57] the president might put pressure on [12:59] Netanyahu and Eisenkot to come together [13:02] to leave their blocks and to form a [13:04] government together, which means that [13:06] would leave the parties on the extreme [13:08] sides out of the government. [13:11] >> I think it's important to remind people [13:12] that [13:14] this government right now, when we talk [13:15] about this being the most right-wing [13:17] government in Israel's history, [13:18] primarily because of Ben-Gvir and [13:20] Smotrich and Bezalel Smotrich, the [13:22] finance minister, being in the [13:23] government, they're two ultra-right [13:25] parties. [13:27] I think people who don't like Netanyahu [13:29] and don't follow Israeli politics [13:32] super closely [13:34] might actually think of this is sort of [13:35] Bibi's natural state. [13:37] And I think this dust-up with Ben-Gvir [13:40] is a reminder, actually no, this is not [13:42] the way Netanyahu has done business in [13:44] general, right? He's always tried to [13:46] build a coalition [13:48] that had a more center-center-right [13:52] framework. And really only ended up [13:54] turning to Ben-Gvir and Smotrich because [13:57] he had burned so many bridges. One of [13:59] the downsides of being a prime minister [14:01] so long is that you've basically crossed [14:03] everybody. And so like all these other [14:05] center-center-right parties wouldn't sit [14:07] with him. It's not as if [14:09] Netanyahu was hoping to form this [14:12] government and be so dependent on [14:14] Ben-Gvir and Smotrich. So, am I right [14:17] about that? [14:18] >> Yeah, you know, I mean, from 2019 to [14:21] 2022 when this government came in, [14:23] Israel had five elections and I mean, [14:26] most of that was because Netanyahu [14:28] didn't have the majority or didn't have [14:30] enough [14:31] seats to it didn't have enough [14:34] you know, power wasn't able to put [14:36] together a coalition that he wanted and [14:39] eventually he got Ben-Gvir and Smotrich [14:42] to form a union that would help them [14:44] pass the threshold and therefore would [14:46] boost his government. An analyst that I [14:48] spoke to today even said to me, you [14:50] know, Ben-Gvir has caused a lot of [14:52] problems for Netanyahu, he's really [14:54] damaged Israel's image abroad, but [14:58] Netanyahu could have at any stage, you [15:00] know, rebuked Ben-Gvir, told him to be [15:03] quiet reined him in a little bit or even [15:06] fired him from the government. I mean, [15:08] he's done that with other ministers in [15:10] the past. He [15:11] he's fired them because he didn't like [15:13] the way they were behaving. But with [15:14] Ben-Gvir, he kind of let him do whatever [15:16] he want. He let him say whatever he [15:18] wanted. And and now we're in this stage [15:20] where Ben-Gvir is kind of attacking [15:22] Netanyahu from the right. And And one [15:25] thing that I, you know, I covered I was [15:27] out in the field last week and I covered [15:29] Ben-Gvir's [15:30] you know, jaunt through the marketplace [15:32] in Ramla, Arab Israeli city. [15:36] And what was interesting is that [15:38] Ben-Gvir, even though he was in the [15:40] government [15:41] in the government on October 7th and he [15:44] was part of the failure that allowed you [15:48] know, the this disaster this terror [15:51] attack to happen. [15:52] He has kind of kept himself clean. He's [15:55] positioned himself away from Netanyahu. [15:58] He's positioned himself as a excellent [16:00] alternative on the right for people who [16:03] are right-wing and they don't want to [16:04] vote for Netanyahu anymore. He has like [16:06] managed to do that and he is the only [16:09] one his party Otzma Yehudit is the only [16:12] one in the coalition that looks like [16:14] it's going to get more seats than it had [16:17] in the previous Knesset. [16:19] >> That increase is at the expense [16:22] of probably Likud or other or [16:24] potentially Smotrich's party, other [16:26] parties [16:28] in the right-wing block. He's not [16:29] flipping people from the anti-Netanyahu [16:32] block. [16:33] I'm assuming that explains why [16:35] Ben-Gvir and Netanyahu are [16:38] going at each other a little bit or at [16:39] least you know, that Ben on Ben-Gvir's [16:41] side he's seeing a benefit [16:43] to to [16:45] hopefully [16:46] from his view pulling votes away. Let's [16:48] go to one more item in the news before [16:50] we wrap up and that is controversy [16:54] involving [16:55] Gadi Eizenkot or I should say [16:58] controversy involving attacks on Gadi [17:01] Eizenkot. [17:02] >> I mean, we discussed that in a previous [17:04] episode. We talked you asked me about [17:06] this Sephardi or the Mizrahi versus [17:09] Ashkenazi debate in Israel and I said, [17:12] "Oh no, that's like that hasn't come up. [17:14] Nothing no one's talking about it." Even [17:15] though Gadi Eizenkot is the first, you [17:18] know, Moroccan [17:19] uh uh [17:20] Israeli of Moroccan heritage or Sephardi [17:23] heritage to [17:24] to reach this level of government and to [17:27] vie for the Prime Minister position of [17:29] Prime Minister. And I kind of, you know, [17:33] I said, "Oh, no, that's outdated." But [17:34] then suddenly a pro-Netanyahu journalist [17:37] from the channel from Channel 14 News, [17:40] which is considered like the [17:41] pro-Netanyahu [17:43] channel, he made this derogatory [17:45] comment, um, calling Gadi Eizenkot a [17:48] monkey. And it immediately drew like a [17:52] huge backlash. People were very upset [17:54] about it. They The news channel started [17:56] broadcasting these clips from like the [17:58] 1980s and '70s when other broadcasters [18:03] had made derogatory comments about [18:05] Sephardim in Israel or Mizrahi Israelis. [18:08] And there was like a lot of the old [18:11] tension was brought back up. And Inon [18:14] Magal, that's the name of the journalist [18:16] who made the comment this week, um, [18:18] there was pressure on him to apologize. [18:21] And instead of apologizing, he kind of [18:23] clarified. He said, "You know, no, I [18:25] didn't really mean he looks like a [18:26] monkey. I meant that he was like one of [18:28] those little puppets on a string and [18:30] there were Ashkenazim behind him like [18:33] manipulating him and it's not really [18:35] real." [18:36] >> So, Ruth, just a I just want to kind of [18:38] bring our listeners back to the [18:40] conversation we had in the previous [18:41] episode to remind them so they [18:43] understand how like a historical flip [18:45] this is. [18:46] Um, for decades and decades Likud's [18:50] stronghold has been [18:52] Mizrahi Jews coming from North Africa [18:55] and the rest of the Middle East, you [18:57] know, especially in the '70s when [18:58] Menachem Begin rose to power. Like the [19:00] idea was he was [19:02] channeling, rallying the the the [19:04] resentment that so many, um, Mizrahim [19:08] Jews had to the left-wing establishment [19:10] and how they felt they were treated and [19:12] how they were looked down upon. So, to [19:14] now have a situation where somebody [19:17] within the Likud orbit [19:19] is seen as the one mocking [19:22] Moroccans is such a reversal of decades [19:26] of Israeli politics. Like you said, we [19:27] don't know how it'll play out. Does it [19:29] start to shift some votes or not? But I [19:32] just wanted to remind our listeners like [19:35] you know, the context of how big a [19:37] change this is. [19:38] >> But I mean, I have to just point out [19:39] because it's not as neat as you as you [19:42] portray it. Because it's true that [19:45] that [19:46] Mizrahi or Sephardi voters, they were [19:49] the ones that got Likud into power under [19:51] Menachem Begin. But you have to [19:53] remember, Menachem Begin himself was [19:55] Ashkenazi. And every leader of Likud, I [19:58] mean, which is Menachem Begin basically, [20:00] Yitzhak Shamir and [20:02] Netanyahu has been Ashkenazi. Yet the [20:06] support base is is Sephardi. And so, you [20:10] know, but there have been times I think [20:12] when other members other Ashkenazi [20:15] members of Likud or of the right have [20:17] made these slurs. And [20:19] and it hasn't done much to dissuade [20:23] them from voting for Likud so much as [20:25] the is the hurt [20:27] from the from the beginning of the [20:29] state, you know, when the Jews from [20:32] Europe came and kind of set up the [20:35] founded the state of Israel and set up [20:36] the institutions, [20:38] the bitterness is still there. So, it [20:40] hasn't done [20:42] you know, damage to Likud as a party or [20:45] as a movement. [20:46] >> Right. [20:46] Okay. Thank you, Ruth. That's it for [20:49] today. [20:50] And thank you to our producer, Maya [20:51] Rakov. Please make sure to join us [20:53] tomorrow for the next episode of Waiting [20:55] for 61. And don't forget to send us your [20:57] questions to waitingfor61@jta.org.
