Transcript [00:00] I think Jewish people today, everywhere, [00:03] are sort of negotiating the world around [00:06] them in ways that are new and kind of [00:07] uncomfortable, asking themselves like [00:10] parents are thinking themselves, should [00:12] I have my child wear a baseball cap to [00:13] cover their yarmulke when they're [00:15] walking outside? Or a college student is [00:18] is asking herself, should I cover my [00:20] Jewish star when I go to my study group [00:22] cuz I don't want the stares or the [00:24] sneers. You know, an employee [00:27] when they're applying for a job is [00:29] saying to themselves, should I write [00:30] down that I'm I'm a member of my [00:32] synagogue, like an officer at my temple, [00:35] or should I just not mention that cuz I [00:36] might not get hired if I do? [00:38] I think every day Jewish people are [00:41] asking these questions in ways that feel [00:44] again unfamiliar and fairly [00:46] uncomfortable. [00:47] Someone said to me recently that at a [00:49] time when, you know, our LGBT friends [00:52] are out of the closet, Jewish people are [00:55] going back into the closet. [01:05] >> [music] [01:08] >> Hello, welcome back to Citizen McCain [01:10] for our very special YouTube exclusive [01:12] with Jonathan Greenblatt, our friend and [01:14] CEO of the Anti-Defamation League. You [01:17] can follow him on social media [01:19] JGreenblattADL. [01:21] Uh I just want to thank you so much [01:23] first of all, Jonathan, for for coming [01:24] on. Uh you're a friend and you do really [01:27] important work and uh thank you for [01:29] being here today. [01:30] >> Look, Megan, you're such a warrior. It [01:32] is always a pleasure to be on your show. [01:34] Like literally, you're fighting the good [01:36] fight every day. So like for me it's a [01:37] gift to be with you. [01:39] >> Thank you. You know, we we just uh taped [01:42] a show with Bridget Phetasy, who is also [01:44] someone who is pro-Israel and very [01:46] concerned about the huge rise of [01:48] anti-Semitism and I shared with her a [01:50] story with you. Uh I saw a friend [01:53] recently who is Jewish and I was just [01:56] talking to them. I said I didn't want to [01:57] say their gender cuz I don't want to [01:58] expose who they are. [02:00] Um just about how they're doing in [02:02] general and they said to me that being [02:05] Jewish is a burden right now, which is [02:07] maybe one of the more heartbreaking [02:09] things I've heard in a long time because [02:13] I think they are pro-Israel and living [02:15] in a time in a world where there's just [02:17] a lot of hate directed at them for no [02:20] reason. [02:21] What do you say to people who are just [02:22] going through their life experience and [02:25] you know, I just can't imagine what it's [02:27] like every single day [02:30] feeling the way my friend feels. [02:31] >> Yeah, I mean, look, I do think something [02:34] has changed. You know, we're right here [02:36] on the verge of the 30th anniversary of [02:39] October the 7th. I think for a lot of [02:41] Jews in America, by the way, secular [02:44] Jews and observant Jews, old and young, [02:47] Ashkenazi and Sephardi and Mizrahi, it [02:50] doesn't matter where you liberals and [02:52] conservatives, wherever you sit on [02:54] whatever your particular spectrum. [02:56] There's sort of a pre-October [02:58] 7th and a post-October the 7th. [03:00] And I think Jewish people today [03:03] everywhere are sort of negotiating the [03:06] world around them in ways that are new [03:08] and kind of uncomfortable, asking [03:10] themselves like parents are thinking [03:12] themselves, should I have my child wear [03:14] a baseball cap to cover their yarmulke [03:16] when they're walking outside? Or a [03:18] college student is is asking herself, [03:21] should I cover my Jewish star when I go [03:22] to my study group? Cuz I don't want the [03:24] stares or the sneers. You know, an [03:27] employee [03:29] when they're applying for a job is [03:30] saying to themselves, should I write [03:31] down that I'm a member of my synagogue, [03:34] like an officer at my temple? Or should [03:37] I just not [03:39] mention that cuz I might not get hired [03:41] if I [03:42] are asking these questions in ways that [03:45] feel again unfamiliar and fairly [03:47] uncomfortable. [03:49] Someone said to me recently that at a [03:51] time when you know, our LGBT friends are [03:54] out of the closet, Jewish people are [03:57] going back into the closet. [03:59] And uh that was a LGBT person who said [04:02] that to me and it still resonates. [04:04] Um now, but at the same time I guess [04:06] what I would say Megan to that friend of [04:08] yours, [04:09] like [04:10] if this is the burden, it is a blessed [04:13] burden. [04:14] Because that your Jewish friend and all [04:16] of us, like we are the you know, [04:19] inheritors of a civilization that's been [04:21] around for thousands of years. [04:23] And it has shared so many gifts with the [04:24] world including here these United [04:26] States, arts and culture and and just [04:30] contributed to the fabric of our society [04:32] and the the the health of our democracy. [04:34] So while it may be a burden that you [04:36] have to make these kind of small [04:39] decisions about how you show up in the [04:41] world, [04:42] it's also a gift and a miracle that [04:43] we're still here. [04:45] And so I hope that people will take [04:46] pride in that identity and use it to [04:47] find it as a source of strength rather [04:50] than any kind of shame. [04:52] >> When I was growing up I um I didn't [04:54] think about anti-Semitism that much, but [04:56] I did have a very robust Holocaust [04:58] education which I'm now grateful for. We [05:00] had a Holocaust victim come in and speak [05:02] to our my class. I went to the Holocaust [05:04] Museum in Los Angeles. We watched [05:07] Schindler's List. Like I had a very like [05:09] now looking back at it I'm like, wow, [05:11] maybe like this isn't something that's [05:13] happening in the same way. Do you think [05:14] that's the root of some of this problem? [05:16] It's just that Holocaust education isn't [05:18] being uh taught in the same way it was [05:21] when I was growing up in the '90s. [05:22] >> Yeah, you know, my friend Dara Horn just [05:24] wrote a brilliant book a kind of about [05:26] this issue and the role of Holocaust [05:28] education and anti-Semitism. I think [05:30] there are multiple things that are [05:31] feeding this moment. So I would probably [05:33] say there's probably four big factors. [05:36] Um and by the way, let's just [05:38] acknowledge [05:39] you grew up you know, Senator McCain [05:42] wasn't a typical dad. So like you grew [05:44] up a paragon of principle. Like [05:47] literally a man who embodied American [05:49] virtues of like decency and humanity and [05:52] courage and strength and that's pretty [05:54] special thing. [05:56] >> I think today there are four things [05:58] driving this moment. I think number one [06:01] I think [06:02] you know, we're living in a world where [06:04] people are more divided than ever. [06:06] The center is sort of collapsed our [06:08] political center and people have moved [06:10] to the moved out of the center to the [06:12] edges and on the edges extremists are [06:14] empowered. [06:15] And those extremists, people like Tucker [06:18] Carlson on one end or Hasan on [06:19] another end, like they are literally [06:22] pushing propaganda nonstop and they have [06:24] more power now than they did before [06:27] because people that center has collapsed [06:29] and people have moved to the edges. So I [06:31] think number one extremists are [06:32] empowered. I think number two [06:34] cynicism and distrust seem to be [06:37] everywhere. Like we don't trust the [06:39] government, we don't trust the [06:41] judiciary, we don't trust law [06:42] enforcement, we don't trust the science, [06:44] we don't trust the this, the press. And [06:46] in a world where there's so much [06:48] distrust that's where like populists [06:51] show up with their conspiracy theories, [06:53] right? Like aha, it's not your fault, [06:56] it's their fault. They look for someone [06:57] to blame and the Jews are the oldest [06:59] scapegoat in the world. So I think this [07:00] conspiracism is now a big part of it. I [07:04] think number three the sort of cratering [07:06] of old media and the rise of social [07:08] media. [07:09] And look like our kids today, they're [07:11] not reading the New York Times. They get [07:12] their news from TikTok. [07:14] And we know that we had world I'm sure [07:17] you at your home like I had in my home I [07:18] had World Book encyclopedias on the [07:20] shelf. Now our kids get their [07:21] information from Wikipedia. [07:24] Which you know, is not exactly written [07:26] by scholars and PhDs. [07:29] And so I think the social media and the [07:31] AI that's now amplifying it is even [07:33] worse. And then lastly, something else I [07:35] think we've talked about our open [07:37] systems like education and philanthropy [07:40] and culture have been totally inundated [07:42] and infiltrated by state and non-state [07:45] actors. [07:46] Whether it's Iran or Cutter or China or [07:49] Russia, like bad actors who see [07:51] anti-Semitism as a way to stoke division [07:54] in this country. So, I think all four of [07:56] these factors play into each other. Um [07:59] if you were to say to me Holocaust [08:01] education, like that's definitely a part [08:03] of it. The reality is we have Holocaust [08:04] education in many states today, but it's [08:07] not necessarily taught the right way and [08:08] our kids today aren't learning the right [08:10] way. Again, they need to see things [08:13] delivered to them on their phone in [08:15] 10-second reels [08:17] rather than like a 45-minute lecture and [08:19] that's creates a lot of challenges. So, [08:21] all of these factors, I think Megan, [08:23] create this perfect storm. [08:25] >> Well, you're coming here on the [08:26] anniversary of October 7th. Um I [08:28] remember waking up on October 7th and [08:31] basically just not So, I felt when [08:33] Charlie Kirk died, I just don't have [08:34] words and I speak for a living. Um that [08:37] was just so overwhelming. Everything [08:38] about it was so overwhelming and [08:40] horrifying and scary for so many [08:42] different reasons and now we're here on [08:44] the anniversary of it and you know, [08:47] support for Israel and I know that [08:49] anti-Semitism and support for Israel, I [08:50] know it's not necessarily the same [08:52] thing, but so much of the time when [08:53] people are attacking Israel, I I see it [08:55] in many instances as just a false flag [08:57] for attacking Jews. Um [09:00] you know, I am thoroughly worried about [09:03] the trend lines that have happened. I [09:04] don't understand uh atrocity can happen [09:07] and then support for the people it [09:08] happened to can go down over a period of [09:11] time. This It's a big question to ask [09:13] you, but can you explain that for people [09:15] who are also sitting here as confused as [09:17] I am? [09:17] >> I think we're all still kind of [09:19] struggling to understand that in a way [09:21] and this is one of the big surprises. I [09:23] mean, I wrote a book a few years ago [09:24] called It Could Happen Here cuz I [09:27] thought things were coming together that [09:29] could make things very difficult for [09:30] Jews and for everybody else. [09:32] But I don't think and I have to own this [09:34] as the head of the ADL, [09:35] I don't think even I realized how fast [09:38] it could happen and how far we could [09:40] fall so quickly. [09:41] Um look, the way you know, you know the [09:44] ADL we monitor extremists and we know [09:46] groups like Students for Justice in [09:48] Palestine, which it's really the [09:50] pro-Hamas auxiliary in the United [09:52] States. They were ready for this. [09:55] When I say they were ready for this, on [09:56] October the 8th, [09:58] while all of us again, well, there were [09:59] no words, [10:01] we were trying to understand what was [10:02] going on, how did this happen? On [10:04] October the 8th, they were publishing [10:06] organizing toolkits, [10:08] talking points, fact sheets. Literally, [10:11] they were organizing pro-Hamas rallies [10:14] to celebrate the massacre on the 8th and [10:17] the 9th. And these networks are [10:19] interconnected. WhatsApp and Signal, [10:22] they're talking to each other. So, it's [10:25] not an accident it happened in Times [10:26] Square [10:27] in New York City and St. Mark's Square [10:30] in London and in front of the Sydney [10:32] Opera House [10:34] uh in Australia and in front of the [10:36] capital in Washington, D.C. Like that. [10:39] So, I think what's happened is these [10:42] kind of these very radical left-wing [10:45] groups, I hate to even call them left. I [10:48] mean, they're not left in any way that [10:49] would resembles our normal [10:51] >> extremist [10:53] >> uh groups like SJP seized on the moment [10:57] and they had been there'd been this [10:58] drip, drip, drip of propaganda for years [11:02] and then this suddenly became a torrent, [11:03] a flood. So, we had people, [11:06] you know, literally just days after the [11:09] massacre accusing Israel of committing [11:11] genocide. [11:13] Days after the genocidal murder of 1,200 [11:16] people, [11:17] they accuse Israel, [11:19] who had no armed forces in Gaza, had not [11:22] done any, [11:23] you know, had not done any major [11:25] offensive in Gaza of genocide. So, the [11:27] reality is I think they were [11:29] they were were [11:30] and ready, Megan. And now we're all [11:32] living in the wake of that. Now, look, [11:35] all that being said, [11:36] you don't have to agree with everything [11:37] the Israeli government does. I don't. [11:39] I'm sure you don't. Most Americans [11:41] don't. You don't have to [11:44] uh necessarily, you know, vote for Bibi [11:46] Netanyahu, but this this using what [11:49] happened in Gaza [11:51] as a pretext to demonize Jewish people, [11:55] to delegitimize the Jewish state, to [11:57] hold it to double standards, that isn't [11:59] politics, it's prejudice. In the same [12:02] way it would be prejudicial if we saw [12:03] people after the Islamic Republic [12:05] murdered 50,000 protesters earlier this [12:08] year, if people vandalized mosques. No [12:11] one would think that would be okay. [12:13] And no one thought it was okay after [12:14] China withheld information about the [12:17] coronavirus back in 2020. No one thought [12:20] it was okay when Asian American people [12:21] were being attacked cuz it wasn't okay. [12:24] And this is not okay. Holding Jewish [12:26] people collectively responsible for [12:28] something happening on the other side of [12:30] the world is wrong. Attacking people [12:32] walking into a synagogue [12:35] because you read some social media post [12:37] is wrong. [12:38] Claiming that there's some conspiracy [12:42] that the Jews don't have a right to be [12:43] at the place where they are originally [12:45] from [12:47] is wrong. So, I think there's lots of [12:49] ways you can again criticize the Israeli [12:51] government, make the case for a [12:52] two-state solution, have tough tough [12:55] discussions without resorting to [12:57] degrading people's basic humanity. [13:00] >> You know, one of the things that scares [13:02] me, I used to live in New York City. I [13:03] went to college at Columbia, which I [13:05] would never send my kids to now, which [13:06] makes me really sad. I just wouldn't be [13:08] comfortable [13:09] give I just don't I don't think their [13:10] response to what happened on their [13:12] campuses is sufficient or up to par, [13:14] where I still want to send my kids to I [13:15] mean, they're young to a school where I [13:17] would think they would learn learn hate [13:19] and and violence against minorities was [13:21] okay. Um [13:23] in New York City, uh there is a very [13:27] uh, large, uh, rise of anti-Semitic [13:29] incidents, um, in the 271 days since [13:32] Mondani took office. You the ADL has [13:35] recorded hundreds of anti-Semitic [13:36] incidences, and nearly 40% of them are [13:39] related to Israel. Have you met with [13:41] Mayor Mondani, and if you have, what is [13:43] your relationship like with him? [13:45] >> So, [13:46] Mayor Mondani is an interesting [13:48] individual. [13:51] So, he had a track record not of [13:54] governing, [13:56] not of running anything, doing anything [13:58] material, but he had a bit of a track [13:59] record as an activist before he ran for [14:02] mayor. He was a state assemblyman, and [14:04] he one of his main issues was Israel. [14:08] For whatever reason. He was an organizer [14:10] at the local Students for Justice in [14:12] Palestine chapter at Bowdoin College, [14:14] small liberal arts college where he went [14:16] to, you know, where he had that he [14:17] attended as an undergrad. Um, so Mayor [14:20] Mondani, while he was running for [14:22] office, made a public statement making [14:25] that he would not meet with Jonathan [14:27] Greenblatt, [14:28] that he felt [14:29] better representatives of the Jewish [14:31] people. [14:32] So, [14:33] >> Wow. [14:33] >> He left you alone for a minute. [14:34] >> Now, that being said, since he was [14:37] elected, I mean, his administration has [14:40] been characterized by an obsession with [14:42] Israel. I mean, one of the first things [14:44] that he did, literally day one, day one, [14:47] was to rescind the definition of [14:49] anti-Semitism that Mayor Adams had put [14:51] in place because there was so much [14:53] anti-Jewish hate happening in New York [14:54] City. Since he was elected, anti-Jewish [14:56] hate crimes have gone up. They've [14:58] reached the highest number we've ever [14:59] tracked in the city with the largest [15:01] Jewish population. [15:02] Since he was elected, he's done things [15:05] like, you know, release a map of of New [15:08] York City's ethnic neighborhoods. [15:10] No Jews on there. [15:12] >> Mhm. [15:13] >> He's refused to condemn the globalize [15:14] the intifada phrase, which calls for [15:16] violence against Jews. When Jews were [15:18] being, if you probably remember this, [15:20] attacked and besieged when they walked [15:23] into Park East Synagogue last December. [15:26] He mildly criticized the protesters who [15:28] did it. And then he attacked the Jewish [15:30] people walking into the synagogue. He [15:31] said that they were to blame. [15:32] That they were responsible, which was [15:34] bizarro. [15:36] And then literally just last week, he [15:38] rolled out his anti-semitism plan. [15:42] That cut and paste many of the ideas [15:44] that Mayor Adams had introduced before [15:46] him. [15:47] He had an anti-semitism plan that [15:49] refused to define anti-semitism. [15:52] He has an anti-semitism plan that gives [15:54] out money to other groups to deal with [15:57] other ethnic issues, not anti-Jewish [15:58] hate. [16:00] And then lastly, to the point you just [16:02] made. He has an anti-semitism plan which [16:05] never intend which deliberately [16:07] deliberately never connects the dots [16:09] between anti-Israel hate and [16:12] anti-semitism. [16:13] So, for me this is par for the course [16:15] with this person. I mean, he has got [16:18] what he's been inconsistent about many [16:20] of the promises he made implementing [16:22] them as mayor, but he has been [16:23] consistent in attacking and denigrating [16:26] Israel [16:28] and its supporters here in New York who [16:29] are his own constituents. Right, he [16:31] called them monsters for supporting the [16:34] Jewish state. So, would I meet with him? [16:37] Under the right conditions, I would meet [16:38] with him. He is the mayor of a city that [16:40] really matters. But what I would not do [16:42] is compromise my principles. What I [16:44] would not do is surrender common sense. [16:46] And what I would not do is submit that [16:49] because he's the mayor, he's somehow [16:52] you know, doesn't have to abide by the [16:54] same morals and standards that all of us [16:57] have to live by. And it starts with [17:00] recognizing your fellow [17:02] your fellow human being as also created [17:04] in the you know, the image of God. And [17:06] to see them love thy neighbor as you [17:08] would love thyself. And he seems [17:10] incapable of doing that when it comes to [17:12] his Jewish constituents and I think [17:14] that's a deep deep problem. [17:16] >> Does New York City still have the [17:17] highest concentration of Jewish [17:19] Americans living there or have many [17:21] moved since his inauguration? [17:23] >> That's a good question, Miranda. So, [17:25] I've definitely anecdotally talked to [17:26] many Jewish people who have told me [17:28] they're getting a second home or they're [17:30] leaving New York altogether or they're [17:32] retreating outside of the five boroughs [17:34] to Long Island or Westchester County or [17:36] someplace cuz they're afraid. And I get [17:38] that. [17:39] I get that. I get what it means to be [17:41] afraid. [17:42] When you have a mayor who just gaslights [17:45] you [17:46] and says he cares about anti-Semitism [17:47] and then spews anti-Zionist rhetoric, I [17:50] get it. [17:51] When you have a mayor who 2 weeks ago, [17:54] he planted a peace tree at Gracie [17:56] Mansion with a Palestinian person but [18:00] not with a Jewish person. [18:01] >> And I saw that. [18:02] >> So, peace for whom? Peace for what? [18:04] >> Exactly. I guess peace just for [18:06] Palestinians. I guess he doesn't think [18:07] Jews or Israelis deserve equal treatment [18:10] or deserve to be part of the story as [18:11] well. I mean, we believe in a two-state [18:13] solution that requires safety and [18:15] security for Israel and dignity and [18:16] equality for Palestinians. I guess he [18:18] has a different point of view. [18:20] >> I would like to show you a clip if you [18:21] don't mind of Tucker Carlson. He did an [18:23] interview with British cabinet member [18:25] over the weekend named Jacob Rees-Mogg [18:28] where at one point in time and during [18:31] the course of the interview, [18:33] basically, Tucker is questioning [18:36] why he shouldn't be why Hitler basically [18:39] wasn't a good dude and that we shouldn't [18:40] have gone in to fight World War II. [18:42] >> It was the classic good versus evil. [18:45] >> Has the UK benefited from it? [18:47] >> We did the right thing. Is it a better [18:48] country than it was? [18:49] >> To have defeated Hitler, yes. [18:51] >> So, the UK is a better country now. It's [18:53] a healthier country now. [18:54] >> Otherwise, we'd be speaking German. [18:56] >> I Who cares? There are a lot of people [18:58] in Britain who can't speak English. So, [19:00] it would be nice to have like at least a [19:01] European language spoken in your [19:03] country. [19:04] >> No, I would sooner have us speaking [19:05] German over any other language. We want [19:08] to speak English. Thank you so much. [19:10] >> Jonathan, that's Vice President Vance's [19:11] good friend. [19:13] Vice President Vance is more than likely [19:14] going to be the nominee for president. [19:16] What do you make of all of this? Because [19:18] I I cannot I can't do this. I just can't [19:21] do this. I can't. And we just had a [19:23] guest on who was saying, you can't throw [19:25] the baby out with the bathwater. And I [19:26] understand I understand that, but for me [19:28] it's like we would be ushering in if if [19:31] Tucker Carlson continues to have the [19:33] platform on a convention stage in the [19:35] Republican Party the same reason [19:37] Democrats probably feel this way some [19:39] about his son, Don Jr. Like, I just [19:41] can't do this. That's my personal [19:42] feeling. What do you make of this? [19:44] Tucker Carlson has a hugely popular [19:45] show. [19:46] >> I mean, so look, I'm I'm glad you raised [19:48] the issue cuz it's fair to say there's [19:50] anti-Semitism on the left and the right. [19:53] The Democratic Party has a big [19:54] challenge. It's really the DSA driving [19:56] so much of this. And the right has a big [19:59] party. And, you know, the Tucker wing of [20:01] the party is very, very troubling. The [20:04] idea that he would go on there and [20:05] suggest to a British person after they [20:08] endured the bombing of London, you know, [20:10] the Blitz, how many British men and [20:14] women and children died at the hand of [20:16] the Nazis, that maybe it'd be better if [20:18] they spoke German in England. That is [20:22] that is literally it almost looks like a [20:23] Saturday Night Live skit. [20:25] >> That's what I said. His the guy's face [20:27] is [20:28] >> Yeah. [20:28] >> I don't want to laugh. [20:29] >> [laughter] [20:29] >> I'm sorry, but the guy said like [20:31] >> Yeah. [20:32] >> It's ridiculous. [20:32] >> I'll speak in a second. Look, um but [20:35] again, Tucker is bankrupt of ideas. And [20:38] so scapegoating [20:40] Jews and and defending Hitler, that's [20:43] his new sort of gig. Now, the truth is [20:47] is that I find it very problematic that [20:50] politicians on either side of the aisle [20:52] would cavort with and make nice with [20:54] people like that. And we've seen on the [20:56] right a lot of people with a lot of [20:57] courage. I give Ted Cruz a lot of credit [21:00] for standing up and going after Tucker [21:02] Carlson. Again, not for some abstract [21:05] reason, but specifically, narrowly, [21:07] concretely on his like rank [21:08] anti-Semitism. By the way, they split at [21:10] the Heritage Foundation. That was openly [21:13] important. Were people at Heritage, this [21:15] venerated institution [21:17] uh that has been around for a long I [21:18] mean, it was part of the Reagan [21:20] Revolution. It was part of W's whole [21:22] plan. [21:23] I I'm sure your father worked with those [21:25] guys for years. I mean, it's been a [21:27] bedrock of American political thought [21:29] for generations has now become again a [21:32] place where Tucker Carlson doesn't get [21:34] called out for saying things like what [21:37] you just saw on that podcast. So, look, [21:39] whether it's [21:40] Vice President Vance [21:42] um on the right or some of the folks on [21:44] the left, I think we should expect our [21:46] elected officials [21:48] to to come to a place of principle. [21:51] Again, for me, that principle starts [21:52] with love thy neighbor as thyself. It [21:54] starts with this basic Judeo-Christian [21:56] idea that we're all created in God's [21:58] image. And so, denigrating people [22:00] because of their faith or their [22:01] ethnicity or their nationality is nuts. [22:04] And I don't have any patience for it. [22:06] None. Zero. None. [22:09] >> To the point of throwing the baby out [22:10] with the bathwater. If I woke up [22:12] tomorrow, Megan, and started saying, you [22:14] know, maybe Hitler wasn't so wrong or he [22:17] had some, you know, he he his ideas were [22:20] interesting. I would expect us to have a [22:22] fight about it. And may [laughter] maybe [22:24] maybe maybe not not be such good friends [22:27] anymore. So, you know, you [22:29] and like when we were kids and our moms [22:31] would say, you are the company you keep. [22:33] And if your friends are acting this way, [22:34] other people are going to expect you to [22:36] behave and think the same way. So, you [22:38] know, when Tucker Carlson's going around [22:39] saying Hitler wasn't so bad, makes me [22:41] think J.D. Vance feels the same way. Or [22:44] at least is okay with people who think [22:46] that way. And I'm not cool with that [22:48] kind of a person being president. [22:50] >> I certainly think that the political I [22:52] think that the public conversation in [22:54] American politics would benefit from the [22:56] Vice President clearly [22:59] clearly disavowing those kinds of [23:02] comments and relationship with someone [23:04] who would even say those things. I mean, [23:06] that is antithetical to American values [23:08] and I think it doesn't reflect well [23:11] the fact that if you go back to the [23:12] convention in '24, right, the GP [23:14] convention, Tucker was in the box [23:17] with [23:17] >> made a speech [23:18] >> His son used to work for JD Vance in his [23:21] office. [23:21] >> Yeah, that's correct, Roosh V. [23:23] >> I just think you cannot serve two [23:25] masters in politics in general and you [23:28] are going to have to make a choice. And [23:29] again, if the choice is ultimately [23:32] Tucker's audience is too important to me [23:33] and the people who follow him are too [23:34] important to me and that's how I can [23:35] become president, you're going to lose [23:37] like it's all the scale. You're going to [23:39] lose the normies. You're going to lose [23:40] the people who find people who say that [23:42] Hitler was [23:43] okay. God, I'm sorry. Crazy. It's like [23:45] >> It's I hate I hate even saying it out [23:47] loud. It's crazy. [23:48] >> Also, for Republicans are possibly [23:50] watching, if you don't want to do it for [23:51] the right moral reasons, maybe do it for [23:53] the political ones because you want to [23:55] be like a pro-isolationist [23:58] like if, you know, whatever. It's so [24:00] crazy. I don't want to keep going down [24:02] this like rabbit hole of crazy. [24:03] >> generally speaking, you're right. The [24:04] Nazi the Nazi path is the wrong [24:07] generally the wrong path to be on. When [24:08] you align up with the Nazis, you should [24:10] >> [laughter] [24:11] >> take time out and rethink your [24:13] >> So, pick a winning team. The Nazis lost. [24:15] Like let's just go with that. [24:17] >> I just can't believe it. He just it's [24:19] >> 2026. Come on. [24:20] >> It's so sad and so [24:23] I mean, Jonathan, like, you know, we're [24:25] all gainfully employed and I certainly [24:27] make a nice living or whatever, but like [24:30] some people will My theory is it's just [24:32] about money and he's making a lot of [24:33] money. I've nothing just this is just [24:34] conjecture and I'm like, some people [24:36] will literally just sell their soul for [24:37] money and I How much is that worth? I [24:40] hope your relationship with God is a [24:41] good [24:42] >> My theory is that that demon that [24:44] attacked him in his sleep is the one [24:45] saying this and that's that's what [24:47] happened is he got attacked and this is [24:49] not even Tucker. It's that demon. [24:52] >> I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. [24:54] >> The ADL just released their [24:56] state-of-the-art report, uh, which is a [24:59] report where Jewish artists who are [25:00] canceled, blacklisted, and pushed out of [25:02] American cultural life, [25:04] uh, are highlighted. Um, this is not an [25:07] aspect of antisemitism I candidly have [25:10] been following as much. Could you, um, [25:13] extrapolate on this and then tell me [25:14] about your state of the arts report? [25:16] >> Yeah, so basically, after October 7th, [25:18] Megan, I started hearing, uh, from [25:21] Jewish authors that their book signings [25:24] were getting canceled. [25:26] I started hearing from [25:27] artists that their exhibits were being [25:29] pulled down. I started hearing from [25:31] Jewish performers that they were getting [25:33] called out, stuff like this. I wondered [25:35] whether it was real or not. So, we have [25:38] a big research team at ADL. We decided [25:39] to sort of test hypothesis. Was there a [25:41] problem? Were Jews being erased? [25:44] And unfortunately, what we discovered is [25:47] that's happening at scale. We evaluated [25:49] 40 of the top museums, art museums in [25:52] the United States. [25:53] Again, we just looked at the top ones [25:55] based on like their collections and [25:57] their attendance numbers, etc., all over [25:59] America. [26:00] It's staggering. [26:02] All of of all of them, they all have [26:04] diversity and inclusion practices. Not a [26:07] single one included Jewish people within [26:10] that remit. Not one. [26:13] Uh, these [26:14] most of these museums, the vast [26:16] majority, observe like heritage months, [26:18] like [26:19] Black History Month or Pride Month, and [26:20] that's a good thing, by the way. [26:23] I think only six observe Jewish American [26:26] Heritage Month. And then five of them [26:30] dropped it after October the 7th. I [26:32] heard one story of an Israeli author, [26:35] again, whose name you would likely know, [26:37] who told me after 10/7, this person has [26:39] written many successful books [26:41] in Israel and here in the United States, [26:42] published all around the world. After [26:44] 10/7, they were told no one, this was [26:47] like right after 10/7, maybe four or [26:49] five months after, so it's early '24, [26:52] no one in Manhattan will host a book, [26:55] like a book signing or book reading for [26:56] you. [26:57] >> A total side note. [26:59] Total side [27:00] >> in Manhattan [27:01] >> want to ever offline with me, Jonathan? [27:03] I throw quite a few book parties. I take [27:05] pride in the good book party I throw. [27:07] I'm not going to I'm not kidding. [27:09] >> I'm not kidding. I I have one coming up. [27:11] The author is not Jewish, that's neither [27:12] here nor there. It's just that they are [27:13] not. [27:14] >> But if I will take you up on that. I [27:16] will take you up on that. [27:17] >> I'm not just saying this. I should have [27:19] been a book party planner. I am very [27:20] good at it. I take pride in You're [27:22] invited as well, everyone, whatever, but [27:24] if they ever people get canceled, have [27:25] them call me and I have a lot of fun [27:27] fancy people who come. I'm I'm just [27:28] saying. Jonathan, thank you so much for [27:30] your time today. I just respect you and [27:34] um I thank you for all the important [27:35] work you're doing. And I'm serious, if [27:37] you have any authors that are canceled, [27:38] they need a book party, and I bet book [27:40] party I throw will be way better than [27:42] whatever anybody else is doing. I'm [27:43] serious. [27:44] >> I'm going to say one more thing. I'm [27:44] going to say, be careful. [27:46] >> I know I I throw I I like Ask Ashley, [27:48] she's been to one of our parties as [27:50] well. Like I really I'm like taking [27:52] pride in being like a DC book party [27:54] person, but anyway, I'm just serious, if [27:56] people feel alone, we got to all help [27:58] each other and feel and support and [28:00] anything I can do for you as well, and [28:02] thank you so much. [28:03] >> You are the best. Thank you, Ashley. I [28:05] just [clears throat] so appreciate your [28:06] solidarity. But then I just said that [28:08] like I don't almost like the word I just [28:10] appreciate your friendship. [28:11] >> You, too. [28:12] >> It's all about. It's just about like [28:14] peop- seeing each other as humans, being [28:16] friends, and so thank you for that. [28:17] >> I'm also lucky that people I work with [28:19] Marjan and I worked together for almost [28:21] 20 years, and you know, she lives in LA. [28:24] You never know, whatever, and stayed so [28:26] strong with me on so much of it, and our [28:28] like team is very open-minded, and I'm [28:31] surrounded by wonderful people who are [28:33] who are just as freaked out by all of [28:35] this as I am, and it's the community [28:37] helps. So, I think with people who feel [28:39] alone, community really helps. [28:40] >> You're here. [28:41] All right. [28:42] >> Thank you so much. [28:43] Be good, you guys. Take care.
