Transcript [00:02] I haven't posted you yet. Don't worry. [00:04] And if I do, I'll blur. [00:07] >> Okay. [00:08] >> You're good. [00:10] >> I'm good. You good? [00:12] >> Alhamdulillah. Hey, if it's good, bro, [00:14] in the holy land. [00:14] >> Just I'm just trying to rage based on [00:16] people, but it's like, bro, like I was [00:19] talking to one of your friends. He [00:21] posted a video with you, but that guy [00:24] was so dense. It was like, [00:26] >> which one? I've got two friends who I've [00:28] done videos with. Avioo or Jewish Daer. [00:32] >> Wait, let me let me Google let me [00:36] Anyways, he he thought Hebrron was like [00:38] fully area B or something like [00:41] >> No, Hebrron's it own like [00:44] it's it own H1 H2. It's not even that's [00:46] the funny thing. We were talking about [00:48] like apartheid and I was like he brought [00:50] it up and I was like oh in my city [00:52] Hebrron he said he runs to like area B [00:55] right and I just like I just kept [00:57] because I was like bro you that's the [00:59] whole thing you do content and you don't [01:01] know this [ __ ] [01:02] >> Hebrron's Hebrron's a problem [laughter] [01:06] it's [01:06] >> No it's not even just H1 and HB H2 it's [01:11] A B C and H1 and H2 [01:14] >> yeah and [01:14] >> it's very complicated. So, I I spend a a [01:17] fair amount of time in Hebron. I'm meant [01:19] to be shooting a video there soon. Yeah, [01:21] you'll appreciate my video I'm shooting [01:22] there, actually. It's going to be I'm [01:24] going to go there and it's a little [01:26] skit. I've hired a tour guide and he's [01:29] taking me to all the ancient Palestinian [01:31] artifacts and I go to the oldest [01:33] graveyard. [01:35] >> You should have hired me, bro. [01:37] >> I know, but you you wouldn't be good for [01:38] the video cuz the whole thing is he [01:40] takes me to all the old places. So, the [01:42] oldest graveyard in in Palestine in [01:44] Palestinian Hebrron and it's Jewish. [01:46] It's got Hebrew. And I'm like, "Is this [01:48] Arabic?" He's like, "Oh, no. It's it's [01:50] Hebrew." Then he takes me to Marata [01:54] Masid and we find some graffiti on the [01:56] wall that's 2,000 years old and is [01:58] Hebrew. [laughter] It's [02:02] >> Yeah. I [snorts] don't know. I feel like [02:04] you would have more views if it was like [02:07] challenging, you know? [02:08] >> No, I mean I'm happy to I'm happy to do [02:11] it. [02:12] I'm happy to do a challenging one. I [02:13] like the first time I went to Hebrron [02:15] was with the BBC and I was doing a [02:18] documentary with them. [02:19] >> You went with the BBC? [02:20] >> I did a documentary with them and they [02:22] took me and they did the propaganda [02:23] tour. They took me to Issa Amro. They [02:26] took me to a few of the activists and I [02:29] knew nothing. [02:31] >> Yeah. [02:31] >> You know, no, not really. We know each [02:34] other from this one documentary. And the [02:37] BBC did me the BBC did me dirty. I said [02:42] um like in the conversation I said look [02:44] Isa what can I didn't know his name [02:46] there but what can we do for peace and [02:48] he said that you need to get out the [02:50] West Bank you all the Israelis need to [02:52] go and I said look I tell you what I [02:54] will shake your hand if you can assure [02:58] me that you won't ethnically cleanse [03:00] every last Jew from the the West Bank [03:04] and I can't remember how but he refused [03:07] and somehow we ended up shaking hands [03:09] and it's basically [03:10] the BBC couldn't. So, it's like me [03:12] saying, "What can we do for peace?" He [03:14] said, "You can get out the West Bank." [03:16] And then we shake hands and it's like [03:17] I'm agreeing with them. They did me so [03:20] honestly. Honestly, I don't think Isa is [03:22] radical enough for the life that he's [03:24] living. But you've seen his house. [03:25] You've seen the videos. [03:26] >> I've been in his house. Yeah. Yeah. I've [03:28] been in his house. [03:29] >> Get harassed every [ __ ] five seconds [03:31] by a settler. I would I would be more [03:33] radical if I was [03:35] >> But he's he's also he's a provocator. [03:38] He's He's there to provoke. That's the [03:41] thing. Like someone like you. I don't [03:42] >> It's his house. It's his He's He's there [03:46] to provoke in his house. Like what? [03:48] >> No. No. He comes down and he throws like [03:50] he he's in everyone's face constantly. [03:52] Like I've seen a million videos of Issa. [03:55] His whole thing is to to provoke, [03:57] antagonize, get a reaction, get [04:00] arrested. That's how he that's his [04:02] activism. [04:05] >> That's the craziest thing. [04:08] You don't you don't think that's his [04:10] activate? You So I'll give you an [04:11] example. [04:12] >> I think he's [04:14] westernized. Honestly, [04:16] >> you guys can't defeat us on the [04:18] battlefield. No chance. Like, [04:20] >> okay. [04:21] >> And so all you have is public image. And [04:25] so the most powerful thing you can do is [04:28] get arrested and present Israel as a bad [04:32] guy. present Israelis as trying to steal [04:35] your houses, trying to do and the [04:38] reality is [04:39] >> really [04:40] >> but what would say like I I give you um [04:44] I don't think everyone in Hebron on the [04:45] Jewish side is lovely. I had a Chinese [04:49] um friend of mine was visiting and we're [04:53] walking through and she sees some [04:55] graffiti on the wall. She says, "What [04:58] does that say?" Marvelim. [05:01] [laughter] It's like like we have some [05:04] some real rotten eggs, some bad apples [05:07] in our camp. [05:10] >> Some I would say some maturity when you [05:12] go to Hebron like uh [05:14] >> I think he I think Hebron's interesting [05:16] because I think on the Jewish side it is [05:18] one of the more radical um settler [05:21] there's settler communities which are [05:23] very like most the settle like if you go [05:24] to Betarit [05:26] like no one's political there at all. [05:29] It's a settlement. Everyone's just a [05:30] hidic Jew. And they go there because [05:33] there's a hidic community. And there's a [05:35] number of places like that. They they're [05:36] not antagonizing anyone. They're not [05:38] doing anything. They're just there [05:40] because that's their community. You go [05:43] to to Hebron, people that move there are [05:46] politically motivated usually. And you [05:48] you have some stronger people by [05:51] Marmoiselle, people who are much further [05:54] to the right than I am. And people who I [05:56] wouldn't support politically. [05:59] And so [06:02] I think these two communities in Hebrron [06:04] up and I think why Hebrron's interesting [06:06] is I actually don't think Hebron is that [06:08] violent. If you go like Janine Nablus, [06:11] they're much worse from the Arab side. [06:14] >> Sorry, we were that violent were [06:16] >> what what changed? [06:20] I think the uh how can I say like the [06:23] the people that were doing most of the [06:24] violence in Hebbrron. I mean do you know [06:26] what the nickname of Hebrron is? Like do [06:29] you know what was the nickname of [06:30] Hebrron for the longest? [06:31] >> No. No. What? [06:32] >> It was it was called the the city of [06:33] Hamas actually. Like [06:35] >> I did I did know it used to be very [06:37] Hamas. It it would it like whenever you [06:39] drive in Nebron from the side of uh [06:43] the the north like when you when you [06:45] drive in you see like a huge [ __ ] [06:48] font not font whatever like somebody [06:52] sprayed it and it says welcome to the [06:53] city of Hamas and it's in green. [06:56] >> It's still there today or it used to be. [06:58] >> No, no, they they uh the PLO. It took [07:01] them like 10 years to remove it, which [07:02] is kind of funny, [laughter] [07:06] but uh yes, I think I don't know. [07:10] >> There's today there's a lot [07:11] >> with money. [07:12] >> Yeah, there's a lot of crime gangs in [07:13] Hebrron, there's a lot of criminal [07:15] activity [07:16] >> from the in terms of Israeli policing. [07:19] Most of the issue Israel has in Hebron [07:21] is criminal rather than political. [07:24] Whereas if you go Janine Nablas [07:26] Tulkarum, it's much more political than [07:29] I mean it's criminal as well. [07:31] >> Bro, trust me and and I know this from [07:33] living here. Uh like these people who [07:35] were doing the attacks, they just they [07:37] either got busy, they got money, so they [07:39] just stopped caring. They were like, [07:40] "Yeah, let me just care about my my [07:42] kids, my life, whatever." Or they're in [07:45] [ __ ] jail. Like that's that's what [07:48] happened. So do you think is this do you [07:50] think then economics is the key to [07:52] unlocking and ending the violence from [07:54] your side actually because I used to [07:56] think that and then they abandoned that [07:58] >> 100%. No I I really believe that because [08:02] even in Gaza I think it it would have [08:04] even worked in Gaza [08:07] but Hamas saw I believe Hamas saw it [08:10] that uh like we will they will never [08:12] have a good economy with Israel there. [08:15] Like what do you think motivates people [08:16] to go? I mean, Janei and Nablas like [08:19] what the [08:20] >> they're all poor kind of like they don't [08:23] they don't have money so they they go [08:25] join the u whatever the brigades there. [08:29] >> That's really interesting. So, do you [08:31] know of families that were Hamas [08:34] affiliated and then they've kind of [08:37] calmed down? [08:38] >> A lot a lot of millionaires here. Yeah, [08:42] I know those millionaires doing business [08:44] with Israel because I know like we're [08:46] buying everything from Hebron. Any [08:48] mattresses coming from Hebron? So, are [08:50] those millionaires doing a lot of [08:52] business with Israel itself now? So they [08:55] were Hamas and now they're [08:57] >> some of some I mean the thing is like [08:59] there's a hu I don't know if you've [09:01] heard about the money laundering in in [09:02] the West Bank where somebody would not [09:05] really be uh would not support Hamas [09:08] politically for example but they would [09:10] get involved because uh they can launder [09:12] money. They get they can get a [ __ ] ton [09:15] of money laundering for for [09:18] the Hamas or jihad or whatever. So we [09:21] have we have a lot of those but uh I [09:24] don't know things changed. [09:26] >> That's really interesting. So this side [09:27] I I don't know so much. I know like the [09:29] areas I go into them. I know the people [09:31] on the ground. [09:31] >> It's huge man. It's huge. A lot of the [09:33] billionaires here not billionaires the [09:35] millionaires. [09:36] >> Millionaires. Millionaire. [09:37] >> How they this how this is how they made [09:39] their their fortune kind of laundering. [09:42] >> That's crazy. And so and Israel is [09:45] obviously fully aware of that because [09:46] Israel knows everything that goes on. [09:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean they're fully aware [09:51] they let it happen because I believe I [09:53] do believe Israel is interested in [09:56] funding Hamas to an extent at least [09:57] before 7th of October. [10:00] But right now things changed. So [10:03] >> so I could I could I could even I'm not [10:07] naive enough to believe that it wouldn't [10:10] be in Israel. It it could have been [10:12] perceived that it was in Israel's [10:14] interest to have different factions v [10:16] for power in the West Bank and Juda and [10:18] Samaria. [10:18] >> No, they were really interested in in [10:21] empowering Hamas, believe it or not. [10:26] Especially at the beginning and [10:29] all actually like the whole time since [10:31] 7th of October. And so take these take [10:35] these guys that have made millions and I [10:37] see that I see the houses I see the cars [10:40] but uh these guys do you think if they [10:44] were offered Israeli citizenship and [10:47] they would push towards Israeli citizens [10:49] sell it to your people they would do it [10:52] for money like or do you think they're [10:54] very nationalistic still? [10:57] I mean, [10:58] >> wait, are you saying like would they be [11:00] willing to accept Israeli citizenship? [11:03] >> Yeah. So, if Israel came came to all of [11:05] these millionaires, um, community [11:08] leaders, [11:09] clan leaders, and said, "Look, we will [11:12] give you guys citizenship. You will be [11:15] able to trade with Israel. You have all [11:17] the benefits, freedom of movement, [11:19] international trade, etc." [11:21] >> Do you think they would go for Do you [11:23] know what a Do you know what a BNC is? A [11:25] >> BNC? [11:27] BMC. It's like [11:28] >> BMC. No. [11:30] >> Yes. It's a pyramid that Israel gives to [11:33] rich people here where they can I mean [11:35] I'm sure you've seen you've seen some [11:36] Palestinian cars in Yafa [11:38] >> all the time. All the time [11:39] >> years ago like with even now you see the [11:43] occasional Palestinian plans [11:46] BMC and they can travel through. They [11:49] can do whatever the [ __ ] they want. So [11:52] yeah, but it's it's nothing political. I [11:54] think it's just I don't know. I don't [11:56] know why Israel is allowing this to be [11:58] honest, but I don't think it's political [12:00] in any way. [12:01] >> Yeah. [12:02] >> Maybe maybe it's an experiment. Maybe [12:04] they're they're dusting something. I'm [12:06] not sure [12:07] >> cuz because my [12:10] I I'd be fascinated to see if economics [12:13] unlocks it because [12:17] the West Bank isn't Gaza, [12:20] isn't Janine and [12:24] >> it kind of is. That's that's exactly my [12:26] point. Like the the I I told you before [12:29] the the the the how do you Bro, I forgot [12:32] my [ __ ] English. It's been a long [12:34] day. [12:36] [laughter] [12:38] Like Hebron was Janine Hebrron was until [12:41] until they flooded a lot of money and [12:44] and people just stopped really caring. [12:46] There was no funding. Nobody cared. [12:49] Yeah. So I do think e economically you [12:52] can solve this issue but uh when it [12:55] comes to like parties like Hamas for [12:57] example they see it deeper that than [13:00] that like maybe the comments the common [13:02] person in Lebron is going to be like oh [13:04] I got money now I don't care like let me [13:06] just live my life but people I mean [13:09] believe it or I don't know what do you [13:10] think about Hamas if you think they're [13:12] sincere about what they're doing but [13:14] they would be like no this is just like [13:16] a [13:18] how do you say like this is very [13:20] temporary and eventually we'll get [13:22] [ __ ] if we don't fight back. So this [13:25] is what they believe [13:26] >> and and so you're saying that the [13:28] businessmen think they'll get effed [13:30] unless they fight back or the Hamas. [13:33] >> No, no, no, not the business. No, no. I [13:36] think what I'm saying is that like like [13:39] let's take someone like me. It's like [13:41] I'm I'm young [13:43] like my whole life is ahead of me. [13:45] >> If I get better economically, I'm not [13:48] going to be like [13:49] >> political [13:50] >> honestly. Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to [13:52] be as political as I am today. I'm not [13:54] gonna take time of my day to maybe I [13:57] will, maybe I won't. I don't know. I'm [13:59] just like speculating. [14:01] But uh let's say the president of Falsa [14:04] if we had an actual good one uh he would [14:06] be thinking long term rather than short [14:09] term because I mean Israel can flood the [14:12] West Bank and Gaza with money and like [14:14] make us good economically [14:17] but it wouldn't uh if there which I [14:19] believe this is what they want if if [14:21] what they want is like total control and [14:23] they want to maybe kick us out one day [14:26] it it will happen even if if if even if [14:28] we get some money right now. Does that [14:31] make sense? [14:31] >> Yeah. No, it does make sense. I think if [14:33] Israel wanted to, it could kick you out [14:35] tomorrow. I don't think it wants to. I [14:37] >> I don't think it's that simple. No, I [14:39] don't think they can kick us out [14:40] tomorrow. [14:41] >> I um that maybe Well, hopefully they [14:45] don't cuz [laughter] I don't think [14:46] that's a good strategy. [14:48] >> Um [14:49] >> well, if you kick us out to to Jordan, [14:51] it's going to be like a [ __ ] regional [14:53] war. Maybe war. [14:55] >> But I think with a regional war, there's [14:57] no one that can touch Israel. Like [15:00] literally. [15:00] >> Yes, [15:02] >> bro. Did something as small as 7th of [15:05] October, you saw what what it triggered? [15:08] You saw what was happening. [15:09] >> So So what it triggered was the [15:11] destruction of Hezbollah, the exposure [15:14] of Iran as being like a they've got the [15:16] straight of Horns, but militarily they [15:18] can't do anything. We're literally [15:20] flying over Tan bombing who we want, [15:22] including the Supreme Leader. [15:25] >> But that's economics. We don't we don't [15:27] I mean with all due respect like when it [15:28] comes to our survival the global [15:30] economics doesn't really factor into it. [15:32] I'm talking military I'm talking [15:34] military might [15:36] >> we can fly anywhere. We took out the [15:37] Houthi leadership, the Iranian [15:39] leadership, the Hamas leadership, the [15:40] Islamic Jihad leadership, the [15:42] leadership. So what I'm saying is you [15:44] could combine every Arab army [15:47] >> surrounding us and they still wouldn't [15:49] stand a chance. [15:52] First of all, I don't I don't believe [15:54] that's 100% true. To be honest, I don't [15:57] think that every Arab army can out [15:59] defeat Israel. I think they could. But [16:00] that's not even what I'm saying. [16:02] >> Okay. [16:02] >> What I'm saying is something as small as [16:04] like an attack on Israel that killed [16:07] 1,200 civilians, people. Sorry, not [16:10] civilians. A lot of them were militants. [16:12] It triggered like the war with Iran. The [16:15] like the [16:17] oil is like to the roof. Whatever. [16:20] America is pressured. Like they're [16:22] they're getting [ __ ] If you think [16:25] Iran is losing this war, I think you're [16:27] just delusional. To be honest, [16:29] >> I think Israel's winning the war. Israel [16:31] Israel has not lost on any front. The [16:34] only front we've lost is the public [16:35] relation front. We've lost the PR. We've [16:37] lost support. [16:39] >> I think Yeah, but I think you you give [16:42] too much independence to Israel. [16:45] >> I connected to the US. [16:47] >> I I I think it's the other way around. [16:50] think the US needs us. We don't need the [16:51] US. [16:55] >> Oh, well, this is a whole new a whole [16:57] other topic, but I disagree. I think I [17:00] think they like if the US decides that [17:03] you guys need to shell the [ __ ] out, you [17:05] you would have to. [17:07] >> So, so let me let me Yeah, let me let me [17:09] rephrase it because I think what I'm [17:10] saying is a bit too um pompous. [17:15] We are the most powerful military in the [17:17] Middle East and we're a huge asset to [17:19] the Americans and that's why the [17:20] Americans invest and control us with [17:23] munitions etc. And so yes, you're [17:25] absolutely right. If America cuts off [17:27] munitions to us, that's a huge problem [17:29] today. And that's why America gives us [17:32] the military aid they give us. as why is [17:34] America make sure we purchase their jets [17:36] rather than developing our own so they [17:38] control us and use us as [17:41] >> so you're saying America is willing to [17:43] lose uh this this current situation [17:46] which is great for America like alliance [17:49] with with Jordan with the Gulf with [17:52] whatever it's it was great before for [17:54] before the whole Iran thing America was [17:56] like they had everything they wanted [17:58] right would we agree on this [18:01] >> um yes largely I think the perception of [18:03] America was they provided tremendous [18:05] security for the Gulf States. Yes. [18:08] >> So, do you think America would risk [18:10] global economy to please Israel? I mean, [18:13] >> definitely not. Definitely not. [18:14] Definitely not. [18:16] >> This is literally what we're saying. So, [18:17] if if uh if Israel kicks out the [18:20] Palestinians, Jordan's in the war, Egypt [18:23] is 90% going to be in the war. Turkey [18:26] might even join. [18:27] >> Yeah, Jordan would. I I could Egypt [18:29] might. Jordan wouldn't. Jordan depend on [18:31] us for too much from security to water. [18:33] >> I'm not saying that that they would like [18:35] declare war on you, but things would be [18:37] very different for you and for America. [18:39] >> But anyway, I I don't think we're about [18:41] to kick you out. So, it's a it's a h [18:42] we're arguing a hypothetical that [18:44] neither of us think going to happen. [18:45] >> You you made you made the argument that [18:47] like, oh, we can, but we but we we're [18:49] not going to. [18:50] >> Yeah. I mean, we we can. Like, for [18:53] instance, take Gaza. If we wanted to [18:55] tomorrow, we could ship everybody out. I [18:57] think what you're likely to see in Gaza [18:59] is Israel will, [19:02] this is my prediction, and I'm not a [19:04] prophet, so I'm probably going to be [19:06] wrong, but my prediction will be Israel [19:08] will find passage for anyone that wants [19:11] to leave of their own free will [19:14] voluntarily. Um, I don't think there'll [19:16] be money associated with that, but there [19:19] will be a flight out. And when you [19:21] >> Why do you think Israel doesn't want to [19:23] kick everything Gazin out of Gaza? I I [19:26] think as I don't think there such a [19:27] thing as Israel. I think there are [19:28] politicians in the Israeli government [19:30] that do and politicians that don't. [19:32] There are people that do and people that [19:33] don't. [19:34] >> Yeah. There are decision makers. [19:37] >> Um Yeah. I But I don't think [19:39] >> you think the decision makers don't want [19:40] to kick out every single [19:42] >> No, I don't. So if you were to go to [19:44] some of the more right-wing factions [19:47] like Osmo, like um Ben, Smart Rich, I [19:52] think you'd pro certainly voluntarily [19:55] and maybe even if there was a button [19:57] that they could press and they just all [19:59] disappear out the country [20:02] circus to be honest. I think I think [20:03] there are decision makers. Maybe we know [20:05] that. [20:05] >> But on the flip side, I I think you like [20:07] we're quite chill. I I'm pretty sure [20:10] that we could have a coffee, have a nice [20:13] conversation. You wouldn't do a knife or [20:16] fart on me. We just have a nice time. It [20:18] would be It would be cool. Now, I'm [20:21] pretty sure if you had a button right in [20:22] front of you, a red button that you [20:24] could press and me and all of my people [20:26] just disappear [20:28] back to wherever and me, the UK is much [20:31] easier. I just go back to the UK um [20:33] because I moved here two years ago. [20:34] You'd probably press the button. It [20:36] doesn't mean you're a bad person. It [20:38] it's just that's the reality of what [20:41] most Palestinians want. They don't want [20:43] the Jews here. [20:46] >> Yeah, I guess we we don't want that as [20:49] Zionism here. No, maybe not necessarily [20:52] the Jews. Zionism. If you're going to [20:54] say that's 90% of his release, then [20:57] sure. [20:58] >> Yeah. So that but you're saying anyone [21:00] that was here before 1917 or descends [21:03] from those Jews that were here before [21:04] 1917, they're cool. But the guys like me [21:06] >> ideology. No, it's just ideology that [21:09] matters. Like I I don't even believe in [21:12] Palestine anyway. Like I see it all as [21:15] God's land to be honest. I I don't like [21:18] the idea of nationalism. I don't like [21:19] the idea of oh this is Jordan, this is [21:22] Palestine, Palestinian, this is he's [21:23] Jordanian. Oh, he's Jewish. I think this [21:26] is all god's land. But uh which is why I [21:30] don't like ideologies. I'm not I it's [21:33] not that I dislike people if that makes [21:36] sense. [21:36] >> No. No, that makes perfect. And like I'm [21:38] I'm I wouldn't frame it exactly the [21:41] same, but I do see this as the holy [21:43] land. And I don't believe it's just [21:45] >> I think every land is holy. I think [21:48] >> Oh, I don't I I think this land is [21:50] different. I think there's something [21:52] different about this land in our [21:54] religions as taught in our religions [21:56] that makes it different to Morocco. [21:58] Morocco is a lovely place. makes a [22:01] difference to the United Kingdom. United [22:02] Kingdom has contributed more to society, [22:04] to mankind, than most nations have. But [22:09] >> I think that there's something special [22:11] about this place. [22:12] >> But I don't I don't think any land [22:14] belongs to any people, if that makes [22:16] sense. Like [22:18] not not not exactly, but [22:21] >> I I I think land doesn't. I think this [22:23] land in particular does in in both of [22:25] our books, but we can argue that. That's [22:27] that's a religious theological argument [22:29] which I think we may have even done [22:31] before. But I think what's what's more [22:33] interesting for me is [22:35] just the the reality in Hebrron that [22:38] there are many many rich not many but [22:40] there's a lot of rich Palestinians [22:43] who were Hamas affiliated and they're [22:46] muddy flooded in business flooded in and [22:51] they've all calmed down. that that for [22:53] me is one of the most interesting things [22:54] I've learned speaking to any um [22:57] Palestinian um around the reality [22:59] because it also it gives me something to [23:02] work with when trying to unlock [23:03] solutions because I don't just want to [23:05] be showing off all the crazy jihadis or [23:08] just showing off all the the the the [23:10] peaceful guys that just want I want to [23:12] find a path for us to to use my platform [23:14] to actually live together. [23:16] >> Yeah. But I I wouldn't say that's [23:19] special to Palestinians. Like I'm sure [23:21] even a lot of Israeli leftists who like [23:25] they're printing money, brother. They're [23:27] like uh I'm not going to name the [23:30] organizations, but like some of them [23:31] they're not really sincere. They don't [23:33] really give a [ __ ] Some of them [23:34] actually serve the interest of Israel, [23:37] but they do it for money. So [23:39] >> well, I hate the NOS's. They whether [23:41] they're Palestinian, whether they're [23:43] Israeli, it's just business. the [23:46] newspapers [23:47] the English paper is different to the [23:49] Hebrew paper. It's like [23:51] >> ours are based ours are based. [23:53] >> Yeah. But the Hebrew is the Hebrew based [23:55] or is it just the English that's based [23:58] and you look at the times of Israel like [24:02] they're just [24:04] betel peace now all these organization [24:10] >> they are [24:13] heavily funded by Europe and they're [24:16] just putting a message [24:19] >> the the creator of that film was it Naza [24:22] is that [24:22] >> um Abraham Yuval Well, you [24:25] >> this guy, he identifies as a Zionist, [24:27] but like I don't I have a lot to say [24:30] about him, but I think he's it's it's [24:33] not really helpful. [24:34] >> By the way, a Zionist is just no [24:36] different to anyone who believes in [24:38] Palestinian nationalism. It's just the [24:40] mirror image. [24:42] >> Not necessarily. Not how it's conducted [24:45] on the ground. Uh [24:47] >> but that would just be like like you [24:49] have the term feminists and that can [24:51] mean a million things. is a Marxist [24:52] feminist, a first wave, a third wave, a [24:54] second wave. Uh like there's so many [24:57] different types of feminism. It's the [25:00] same with Zionism. [25:02] >> Would you say like Palestinian [25:03] nationalism is similar to Turkish [25:05] nationalism, for example, or Israeli [25:07] nationalism? [25:09] >> I would say that the the major [25:11] difference between Palestinian [25:12] nationalism and Turkish nationalism is [25:14] one has a nation, the other wants to be [25:16] a nation. I I [25:19] >> I would say Palestinian nationalism is [25:21] closer to Zionism pre-Israel. [25:27] >> So [25:27] >> if I say I'm I'm a proud Turkish [25:29] national national and like an Armenian [25:34] or anybody who is this is he's going to [25:36] think about the Armenian genocide. He's [25:37] going to be think about what they did to [25:38] the Greeks. He's going to think about [25:40] all these things. So it's it's more [25:42] [ __ ] up than me saying I'm a [25:43] Palestinian nationalist. Uh which is [25:46] like We didn't do anything Robert kind [25:49] of. [25:50] >> Yeah. [25:51] >> You understand? [25:52] >> I think so. [25:53] >> What differs from a Palestinian [25:55] national? [25:56] >> And so I I think I think it raises like [26:00] a really important question in the age [26:01] of an Israeli state. Is there a place [26:05] for Zionism? So if you speak to a [26:07] pro-Turkish nationalist, he's a [26:08] pro-Turkish nationalist. You speak to a [26:10] pro-English n British nationalist pro [26:13] British nationalist. If you speak to a [26:15] proud Israeli nationalist or a Zionist, [26:18] well, you could just be an Israeli [26:19] nationalist. You could just support [26:21] Israel as a country rather than Zionism [26:23] as an ideology to establish a country [26:25] and then preserve it. And so Zionism for [26:29] me is just I'm literally wearing the [26:30] jumper is just I want the state of [26:33] Israel to continue to exist as a Jewish [26:35] state as [26:36] >> Yeah, but you're supporting it as it is [26:39] right now, which makes it possible. [26:41] >> Yeah, but you could be a Zionist that [26:42] doesn't support it as it is now. Like [26:44] like Yuval Abraham clearly doesn't [26:45] support it as it is today. [26:48] >> Yeah, but he supported it as it was one [26:50] day, which is [26:51] >> No, he doesn't. I all all leftwing [26:53] Zionists, they they create an they [26:56] support an Israel that has never existed [26:58] and will never exist. It's like this [27:00] left-wing socialist communist utopia [27:02] where everyone gets along and it's [27:05] really [27:06] >> Yeah, it's a fantasy. It's a fantasy. I [27:07] agree with you. Like the the mo the most [27:10] uh evil thing you can say about a person [27:12] these days, especially on is like, "Oh, [27:14] he's a white nationalist." Like, why is [27:16] that bad? Because of what white [27:18] nationalism did. The same goes for [27:21] uh Zionist. That's that's what I'm [27:24] trying to say. [27:24] >> Yeah. And I and I think we see the [27:26] history so different. I see the history [27:28] of Zionism as good and you see the [27:31] history of Zionism as bad. [27:33] >> And we we view it very differently. [27:35] Yeah, our families have very different. [27:37] >> I don't know if I told you this before, [27:39] but I don't really see which is I think [27:42] it's illegal to say here, so I don't [27:44] know if I should say this. I I don't I [27:46] don't see much difference between Nazi [27:49] Germany and like uh current day Israel [27:51] to be honest. Like uh I think they're [27:54] they're both very similar. [27:56] And that that just speaks and I won't [28:00] include that bit, but it just speaks to [28:02] your absolute lack of knowledge on both [28:05] subjects to make that equivalency. [28:07] >> Could you elaborate or do you want me to [28:09] elaborate on why I think they're [28:10] similar? [28:10] >> Yeah, you whichever way you'd rather do, [28:12] I'm happy to do it either way. I mean [28:15] what what makes the what made the Nazis [28:17] evil made notice it's like past tense [28:20] but it's still relevant today for some [28:22] reason is that they they were like u uh [28:26] how do you say [28:29] my [ __ ] English today they uh racist [28:33] not racist but what is it supremacist [28:35] yes they're supremacist they they they [28:38] committed ethnic cleansing they have [28:39] very [ __ ] up thoughts they did [28:42] genocide which I believe is is doing [28:44] right now. There's actually this game on [28:47] Google which doesn't really support what [28:48] I'm saying, but it's just like I'm [28:50] telling you where like you play the game [28:52] and you have to guess whether this was [28:54] said by a scientist or by a Nazi and [28:57] it's literally impossible. [28:58] >> I've got Hamas or Nazi the game show and [29:00] it's also impossible. I've got on my [29:02] YouTube. I made it with a friend of [29:04] mine, Lee Karn, many years ago. [29:05] >> Yeah, but Hamas, okay, let's assume that [29:08] Hamas is like the most evil being ever. [29:11] they they did not really conduct uh the [29:14] same damage as Israel did. So if you [29:17] want to equate Israel with Hamas, then [29:19] sure, I guess really doing it. That's [29:21] the thing. [29:22] >> So the Nazis [29:26] set out to erase the existence of the [29:30] Jewish people. The Jews were a [29:32] vulnerable minority. They had no they [29:34] they'd caused no injury to the German [29:36] people. They weren't a threat on any [29:39] level. They were just a minority and a [29:41] scapegoat within Europe and Poland and [29:44] various other places. And six million of [29:47] them were slaughtered in death camps. So [29:49] the the Germans literally built [29:50] factories to slaughter Jews in. They [29:53] sent them there in trains and reduced [29:56] the population of Europe's Jews. Yeah. [29:58] By 2/3. So 2/3 of the population was [30:02] completely erased, including many of my [30:04] family members. [30:05] >> Would it would it be the same if it was [30:07] one/ird or maybe one10enth? Obviously [30:10] numbers matter. There's a difference. So [30:12] no, it does. If you've got a person who [30:15] murders an innocent person, that's [30:18] horrendous. They're a murderer. They go [30:19] to jail. If you got a person who murders [30:22] a hundred people, that's a crime on a [30:25] greater scale. Um the the size of the [30:28] crime does impact its severity and how [30:33] we perceive it. And so a genocide [30:36] requires, and we don't have to get into [30:39] the legal definitions, but it requires [30:41] the intentional [30:43] destruction or attempted destruction of [30:44] a people in part a whole. And [30:47] >> yeah, which I believe that's happened. [30:49] >> And so, so what I was going to go on to [30:50] say, so in Europe, my ancestors were put [30:54] on trains and slaughtered because they [30:56] were Jewish. What happened in Gaza is [30:59] very different. It's a war. It was [31:01] initiated by Hamas. And you can argue [31:04] they were reacting to the the [31:05] circumstances they were living under. I [31:09] >> disagree. I think they were motivated by [31:11] ideology, the ideology of destroying [31:13] Israel. And they launched they launched [31:16] they initiated the war. They kidnapped [31:18] people, brought them back to Gaza, [31:20] forcing the war in Gaza. And then they [31:23] engaged in [31:26] urban warfare in one of the most densely [31:29] populated places certainly in the [31:31] region. And so as a consequence, Israel [31:34] went to insane lengths to move millions [31:37] of people again and again and again. So [31:39] 1.5 million people were evacuated from [31:42] Rafa. Israel facilitated the movement of [31:45] two billion kilograms of aid. They [31:47] vaccinated a million garans from polio [31:51] during the war. They set up say for [31:56] areas like Alawasi, which is hell on [31:57] earth. play I if you go on Google Earth [32:00] and you just look at tent tent tent 10 [32:02] tent tent where they used to be [32:03] neighborhoods [32:04] >> which they they they bombed many times. [32:07] >> No, they've bomb but because there's a [32:10] threat there. So for instance, Muhammad [32:11] was killed in al- Muasi. So what's [32:14] Muhammad DeF doing in Al- Masi? [32:17] >> How many how many people were killed [32:18] when I I don't think I don't know. I [32:21] don't know if he was killed there to be [32:22] honest, but let's just go with this. No, [32:24] he he was he was and the the Hamas put [32:26] out a ridiculous number ridiculous [32:28] number of people that were killed [32:29] alongside him which Israel refuted like [32:32] Ali when they bombed the Ali hospital [32:35] when Islamic jihad bombed it and they [32:37] claimed 500 dead and it was around 27 [32:40] >> but we're not we're not sticking on [32:42] topic. So like [32:44] >> but anyway just to bring it back to the [32:45] the Nazi thing. So this whether you like [32:49] Israel, whether you think Israel has [32:52] killed a disproportionate number of [32:55] Palestinians in comparison to Israelis, [32:57] we can get into it. That's a whole [32:58] conversation, but it's incomparable to [33:00] what happened in Nazis. The Nazis were [33:02] trying to erase the Jewish people. If [33:05] Israel was trying to erase the [33:07] Palestinians, why would they evacuate [33:09] Rafa? Why would they send millions of [33:11] texts and drop millions of flyers and [33:13] make millions of phone calls warning [33:15] people to leave? [33:17] >> You cannot just kill two You cannot just [33:19] kill two million people. You just [33:22] >> But the the death toll is ridicul I mean [33:24] it's a high death toll, so I don't want [33:25] it to sound like I'm cold, but it's [33:27] ridiculously low. [33:28] >> My phone is at 10%. [33:30] >> Okay, so I'll go quickly with this. So [33:31] before the Gaza war, there was 8,000 [33:34] people dying of natural deaths around [33:36] that a year. We're in a three-year war, [33:39] which Hamas have said, including natural [33:40] deaths, comes to around 73,000 verified, [33:43] and they suspect maybe another 10,000 [33:45] under the rubble. [33:48] >> You're not about the missing people, but [33:50] sure. [33:50] >> Yes. So, I'm saying they say another [33:52] 10,000 like to be report someone is [33:54] missing. It's very simple. [33:56] >> 100 to 120. [33:57] >> No, no, it's not. That's not what Hamas [33:59] are saying anyway. Or the Ministry of [34:00] Health to all you do is you fill in a [34:03] form if someone's not missing. And we're [34:05] three years in now. So people would fill [34:07] in the forms. If there's 100,000 people, [34:09] we'd have 100,000 names. And so [34:13] there's not that. The numbers are much [34:14] lower. And so let's say 24,000 of them. [34:17] Let's say 20,000. Reduce it down. That [34:19] leaves 53,000. Now Israel claims it's [34:22] killed 25,000 militants. And that means [34:25] another 25,000 non-combatants have died, [34:27] which is a a tragic number, a high [34:30] number. There's innocent people, there's [34:32] kids, there's women, there's elderly [34:34] amongst those. And so I'm not minimizing [34:37] that, but that's not intentionally [34:40] trying to genocide a people. That's a [34:42] war. [34:44] >> That's a onetoone civilian to militant [34:46] ratio. [34:46] >> First, it's not a oneto one. I mean, all [34:49] all the stuff that I can quote are not [34:51] really official. [34:52] >> Yeah. [34:53] >> There are mostly leaks from Israeli [34:55] media. [34:57] Uh I read this article where it said [34:59] that uh I believe it was it was talking [35:02] about this AI system that was used [35:05] because before before this [35:07] >> lavender I believe lavender. Thank you. [35:10] So you know about lavender right? [35:11] >> But this is this is just how perverse [35:14] the whole framing is. Lavender is an AI [35:17] system used to try and minimize civilian [35:21] casualties and the world corrupts it and [35:23] says it's used to maximize them. Like if [35:26] Israel wanted to maximize civilian [35:28] casualties, it wouldn't be doing [35:29] calculations. It wouldn't be tracking [35:31] people. It wouldn't be [35:33] >> Sorry. Go on. [35:34] >> How many how many air strikes could [35:36] Israel do in Gaza in a day before 74 [35:39] before Lavender for the whole AI stuff? [35:42] >> How how many air strikes it was [35:44] included? It was 50 uh I think it was 50 [35:47] a month or 50 a day. I think it was 50 a [35:50] month. That number jumped uh after 7th [35:55] of October to like what I believe it was [35:57] 2,000 or 5,000. [35:59] >> So I I don't understand why would [36:02] Lavender [36:04] increase its ability to bomb. [36:07] >> No, it's it's not like you know I mean [36:09] I'm I'm a software engineer. I know [36:11] about AI formation. IDF claimed that [36:13] lavender was like 90% correct and 10% [36:18] not correct. Right? But that that's not [36:21] even the real number. Like but even if [36:23] you want to take this number 10% is is a [36:26] lot of people, right? [36:29] >> So [36:29] >> I believe the official stats are like [36:31] what it was uh I think it was 11% [36:34] correct. And [36:35] >> so one of this is one of the things that [36:36] many people misunderstand the AI doesn't [36:39] then trigger a strike. There's multiple [36:42] different AI systems in place and what [36:45] they do is they provide the [36:50] probabilities that's then goes through [36:53] different layers of validation. So it [36:55] goes through a human check afterwards. [36:57] It goes to legal, it goes through [36:59] various steps before any strike is [37:01] carried out. [37:02] >> Do you think you think that's doable? Do [37:04] you think that was doable during the the [37:05] Gaza genocide? Well, one, it's not a [37:08] genocide, but two, [37:10] >> I mean, that is what's [37:12] >> so I'm speaking from Israeli testimony. [37:14] You have anonymous testimonies. You have [37:16] anonymous testimonies. I can send you [37:18] videos of people publicly saying what [37:20] happens. They can't go into details. [37:22] >> Somebody's going to show their face and [37:25] you think they release on Naza were like [37:27] lying or [37:29] Yes. Yes, I do. [37:31] >> I do. I haven't seen NAZA yet, but I do [37:33] know that many people who are [37:37] so the the NAZA testimonies are from [37:39] people from unit 8200. [37:42] So this is the intelligence. It's a [37:44] bigger department than the Navy. It's [37:46] huge. And people who are involved in the [37:49] actual coordinations of strikes say that [37:52] there's no way that the people in NAZA [37:54] have any any awareness of what the [37:57] actual operational procedure is. Of [37:59] course they're of course they're going [38:01] to say that. I mean I mean I I don't [38:03] know like I cannot prove it. You're [38:04] going to prove it. But [38:05] >> but what I mean we we what we can prove [38:07] we can both look like because we don't [38:08] know. We've never looked at the source [38:10] code. We're not in the the command [38:13] center as they're they're calling strike [38:15] like we don't know. So we're dependent [38:17] on different people's testimonies. [38:19] You'll trust one person I'll trust [38:20] another. What we do know is we can look [38:23] at the level of destruction in Gaza [38:25] which is huge. If you look on Google [38:27] Earth, not only is it 10 city, Rafa's [38:29] gone. It's gone. It's not there anymore. [38:32] But the 1.5 million people that were in [38:34] Rafa are not dead because Israel moved [38:36] them out. [38:37] >> And so [38:39] Isra Gaz the Gaza war has a lower death [38:43] toll than any of like Syria, [38:46] Afghanistan, Iraq. [38:47] >> That's just not correct. [38:48] >> No, it's 100%. Half a million people [38:50] dead in Syria. A million in Iraq. You [38:53] have you have no proof of how many Hamas [38:56] militants you've killed. [38:58] >> No, I'm not I'm not saying I didn't even [38:59] say civilian. Let's say all 73,000 are [39:02] civilian. It's still a fraction of the [39:04] death toll of Syria, Iraq, etc. [39:07] >> Perap [39:08] >> per capita as well. It's 0. It's 3% [39:12] would be Gaza. Syria was I think it was [39:15] 6%. Like these are much bloodier [39:18] conflicts per capita as well. But that [39:20] my my key point I'm saying here is no [39:23] one is describing any of these other [39:24] wars as a genocide. And Israel has gone [39:27] to incredible lengths to minimize [39:29] civilian civilian casualties with the AI [39:32] systems we're discussing with the aid [39:34] with the what? Israel still supplying [39:36] water. Israel supplies water to Gaza. [39:40] >> Russia supplies water to Ukraine. Does [39:42] >> Does it It does. [39:45] >> Really? I did not know. That's crazy. [39:46] >> They supply gas. They supply gas and [39:49] water. [39:49] >> You're Is that real? Because if it is, I [39:52] do not know that. That's absolutely [39:54] insane. I can't No, I'm sorry. I can't [39:56] believe that Ukraine is buying gas off [39:58] Russia. I [39:59] >> I've got I got to check that. That's [40:01] >> That's wild. Let me just check that. [40:04] I've never heard that. [40:09] >> Does Ukraine buy gas off Russia post the [40:13] beginning of the Ukraine Russian war? [40:19] Let me check the details on that. [40:21] Ukraine doesn't directly buy natural gas [40:24] from Russia. Since late 2015, they've [40:27] imported gas from European Union [40:29] countries through reverse flow [40:30] mechanisms to meet their needs. [40:32] >> Do they buy any water from the Russians? [40:37] >> No. Ukraine does not buy water from [40:39] Russian. [40:39] >> They get something Ask them what they [40:41] get from the Russians. [laughter] [40:44] Do the Ukrainians get anything from the [40:46] Russians or do the Russians buy anything [40:48] from the Ukrainians since 2015, [40:51] particularly since 2022? [40:59] >> Since the 2022 invasion, direct trade [41:02] between Ukraine and Russia has fallen to [41:04] extremely low levels. Ukraine severed [41:07] diplomatic relations and implemented a [41:09] comprehensive ban on imports from [41:10] Russia. [41:12] I don't I don't I don't think that's the [41:13] case, but I could be wrong. Like I do [41:15] not trust the AI. I don't trust Germany [41:17] and I don't trust um Lavender. I don't [41:20] trust any AI. [laughter] [41:23] >> Yeah, but I mean using an AI to to kill [41:26] people is [41:27] >> but it's not that's what I just told you [41:29] that the AI doesn't do anything. The AI [41:31] the AI provides better calculations than [41:34] a human can faster which a human then [41:36] verifies. You're an AI. You said you're [41:38] an engineer. You're an AI. You know [41:40] that. you know that when it comes to [41:41] running numbers, an AI will do it more [41:44] effectively and then you validate it. [41:45] You make sure it's not hallucinating. [41:47] You make sure it is accurate. [41:50] >> Okay. So, I'm wrong on the Russell [41:52] thing. I don't know where I heard this [41:53] before. [41:54] >> But look, I'm I'm sure I've said a load [41:56] of wrong things in this conversation. I [41:58] definitely have. Um it's not whether the [42:01] key thing what I'm trying to point out [42:02] with that is that was not the experience [42:04] in Nazi Germany. Like you may think [42:07] Israel is the biggest pariah on the [42:09] planet today, but it's not trying to [42:11] erase like like exterminate the [42:15] Palestinian people. If you were to argue [42:17] that there's some Israeli politi [42:19] politicians that want to transfer the [42:20] Arabs out of Gaza, yes, I know some of [42:22] them like [42:25] exterminate exterminate [42:27] include ethnic cleansing or [42:29] >> so that's what I just said. As you said, [42:30] I can I know personally [42:33] prominent Israelis that would like to [42:34] see a transfer of the Arabs from Gaza. I [42:37] think everyone I know would say [42:38] voluntarily, but I'm sure you'll find [42:41] Israelis that would want to do it like [42:43] >> even being fear. [42:45] >> Yeah, but I think volunt Yeah, except [42:46] they'll say voluntary. And I think [42:48] that's a huge distinction as well that [42:50] voluntarily is a huge distinction [42:53] because that's no longer ethnic [42:54] cleansing. [42:55] >> It's not real. It's not real. It's it's [42:56] like the the voluntary uh [43:00] a travel for it's just not a real thing. [43:03] >> I mean and the the the other side of [43:04] that is I [43:07] >> if you're living in a tent in Masi of [43:10] course you want to leave like the [43:13] overwhelming majority of people would [43:15] want to leave and I actually think [43:17] there's a moral obligation like forget [43:19] the conflict I think there's a moral [43:21] obligation on the world to help them to [43:23] leave. That doesn't mean that they can't [43:25] return, but you can't condemn somebody [43:29] to live in a tent because you believe in [43:30] the idea of a Palestinian state. [43:34] Like the war has happened. Rafa is gone. [43:37] That's a reality of the conflict. And so [43:39] these people need deserve a better life. [43:41] What's going on in today? [43:43] >> I don't know. I think there's a [43:47] >> I'm not hearing the gunshots though. [43:49] >> [laughter] [43:51] >> No gunshots after 10 p.m. [43:53] >> Is that a thing? [laughter] [43:55] >> No. [43:58] >> This one of my favorite things, by the [43:59] way, I learned about Palestinian culture [44:01] is Oh, he's gone. [44:06] Well, I'll say it to the audience. One [44:07] of the favorite things I've learned is [44:09] many Palestinian houses, most will have [44:11] a gun in it. But they only use it at [44:13] weddings because they're terrified of [44:15] getting it seized from the Israelis. So [44:17] they'll use that gun to shoot at the air [44:19] at weddings um and maybe for some [44:21] internal disputes, but it is rarely used [44:23] for terror. But it's a highly armed um [44:26] society. But anyway, I enjoy this kid. [44:29] I'm going to stop now and just wrap up. [44:33] It's a guy. He lives in Khalil. I get on [44:36] with him. He's a younger guy and [44:39] he's very anti-Israel, very hostile, [44:43] different in politics, [44:46] but very easy to talk to and could very [44:50] easily chill with him. And I think this [44:53] for me is one of the biggest [44:54] frustrations of the conflict. In any [44:57] other reality, we'd be mates, but here [45:00] we're enemies. were on different sides [45:02] of the the battle line with completely [45:05] different views on the history. [45:10] But potentially as much as we see [45:12] history differently and as much as our [45:18] people hate each other, I think it is [45:20] through dialogue that we can both arrive [45:22] at a pragmatic solution for the future. [45:27] At least I hope. Anyway, thanks for [45:29] watching and see you all at the next
